<p>This afternoon on WNYC (an affiliate of NPR’s) Leonard Lopate is interviewing Dr. Mel Levine, a pediatrician and Prof. of Pediatrics who’s written a book called Ready or Not, Here Comes Life. Here’s a link to the WNYC interview <a href=“http://wnyc.org/shows/lopate/episodes/01272005[/url]”>http://wnyc.org/shows/lopate/episodes/01272005</a>, and of course you can read about the book on Amazon where you’ll find, in part, it says
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<p>I’m wondering if any of you all have read this book and, if so, what you thought of it? The interview definitely caught my attention and reminded me of my sister’s son who is living at home now after having graduated from college (where he excelled academically but not socially) 1 and 1/2 years ago and is supposedly applying to law schools…but never really seems to get his act together… I don’t want to dwell on this young man, but am interested in whether or not any of you either heard this interview or have read the book and what you thoughts and experiences are.</p>
<p>Please if I’ve posted this topic in the wrong place - perhaps you can move it or tell me where it might fit? Thanks!</p>
<p>Haven’t read the book, but these are VERY hard things to teach as a “subject,” rather than in the context of a life -that is, being given responsibilities at home; being expected to contribute to society through volunteer work, preferably starting at a young age when the whole family can do something together; maybe going through an organization like Sea Scouts or Boy Scouts that (in the best troops) teach self-reliance, being responsible for younger kids, having to solve problems while winter camping or whatever; learning to manage money with parental help (my father taught me at a very early age the difference between wage slavery and business ownership, and I love the Chris Rock rap on the difference between “rich” and “wealthy:” “Rich you can lose in a summer of doing drugs; wealth you can’t get rid of! Shaq is rich! The guy writes Shaq’s check is wealthy”) - my kids are doing better than I am in the stock market, etc.</p>
<p>The schools do enough. They are so over-mandated with all kinds of courses in health etc. that it sort of sounds like the author is trying to build a niche for himself and his books and products. Hmm, imagine is “self-awareness” was mandated as a separate course! I’ll bet he has a textbook already written!</p>
<p>Just to make myself clear, I 100% agree that kids need to know this stuff - it’s just HOW they learn it that I question…</p>
<p>Gotcha on that - the “HOW” part. I’m not so interested in the schools rolling up their sleeves, though perhaps if less standardized testing was mandated there might be more time for other things, as I am in the greater concepts here. You’ve outlined ways to encourage preparation, for sure, nedad. What seems interesting to me is that during these times of what appears to be extreme competition to have childrent become “high achievers” whether in college admission, or whatever, that there appears to be a larger number of 20 somethings that don’t really know what to do with their lives or are stuck.</p>
<p>Thanks for the post – I haven’t read the book, but I’m listening to the broadcast now. </p>
<p>I’d like to note that one thing I’ve seen on these boards is that kids and their parents seem to be overly invested in the notion that (a) a college education is a necessary prerequisite for any worthwhile career, and that (b) the choice of the right major at a sufficiently prestigous college will guarantee employment. And what I see in real life is kids coming out of college without a clue as to what it is they want to do. They spent their whole childhood believing that their college education was their ticket to a dream career… and basically come out to the disappointing reality that a college degree is merely a highly beneficial addition to a resume, not a guarantee. </p>
<p>The problem is that I think that kids with this single-minded focus on college degree=career success are not using the time in their teens and college years to gain real world work experience and build the other skills (including communication and workplace skills) that are the key to getting a good job in the first place.</p>
<p>I don’t think the problem is so much that overscheduled kids lack unstructured time, but that they as teenagers they don’t have the time for a part time job. There is no substitute for a real job for building the basic skills needed to maintain employment later on.</p>
<p>Gee, backhandgrip, I’m surprised you’ve been so quick to say “poppycock!” unless, of course, you’ve read the book or at least heard the interview.</p>
<p>SBmom and calmom, I think you two have both hit on what Levine is after - but I haven’t read the book yet, though it has certainly gotten my attention.</p>
<p>If you take the time to listen to the interview or read some of chapter 1 that is posted on Amazon’s webpage, you may well feel that you know it all, but “poppycock” - I think not.</p>
<p>I don’t think this is a new phenomenon–schools have been pretty poor at career counseling since at least my time. I think there are more students living at home now, but many people have been underemployed or employed in careers that are just things they fell into without much thought for a long time now. There is another book called “Major in Success” that tries to help students get into meaningful work after graduation. It talks about discovering your interests, using internships and other work to network, learning how to do a focused search, etc. You might want to take a look at it. I agree that the focus in high school on raising standardized test scores and meeting arbitrary state and federal goals detracts from the schools’ abilitiy to focus on real learning. I think that some schools do have “Life Skills” classes that address things like personal finance, aptitude testing, etc. Some collleges do a super job at placing their students in internships and helping them find jobs; others fail abysmally. I think that if we send our kids to an ivory tower school, we need to help them with the practical thinking and planning.</p>
<p>He criticizes the “highly structured world of overscheduled activities” and somehow concludes that this is why our kids “never learned the basics of choosing and advancing through the stages of a career.” When I graduated with a BA in economics in 1975 I had no clue as to what career I would pursue, and I had plenty of company in my class.</p>
<p>But wait, aren’t we most critical of today’s kids because they are way too focused on career? They don’t want to learn for learning’s sake, they only want to be trained for a job? Kids in 9th grade worrying about premed requirements, huge numbers preparing for and applying to business school, kids (very rightly) worrying about how well paying a job they can get with their $100k liberal arts degree? </p>
<p>I think a lot of kids today are very focused on career, much more so than most of my peers were at the same age.</p>
<p>I also find absurd his suggestion that schools put less emphasis on college applications and more on teaching (HOW???) " inner direction, or self-awareness; interpretation, or understanding the outside world; instrumentation, or the acquisition of mental tools; and interaction, or the ability to relate to other people effectively." Parents, what do you think about that course description? Sounds like one heck of a BS class to me!! :)</p>
<p>He’ s actually saying the nature of the current pre-professional obsession (seen amply on this board – a la “I’m in 8th grade, what are my chances?” and “what ECs should I do for law school?”) actually DISABLES kids re their later career success… they don’t go from intrinsic impulses but from external guidelines.</p>
<p>Putting it differently: If you want to know how to make great choices, practice making choices. If you want to know who you are and what will make you happy, fill empty time thoughtfully. If you want to be able to rapidly shift gears in an ever-changing economy, don’t go on a totally straight line for 10 years towards a fixed goal, or you won’t acquire that skill.</p>
<p>Having grown up left tomy own devices and having attended a college with no core curriculum, I definitely see the value in drifting. I too had zero idea what I would do after college… But I knew a lot about what I wouldn’t want to do, who I was, and how to navigate without anyone telling me what to do next. I didn’t know what I would “do” but I absolutely knew I could figure it out.</p>
<p>Too much programming stunts the “figure it out” radar.</p>
<p>I totally agree with the concept of kids being overscheduled and needing more “drifting” and “figuring it out” time, but as soon as someone thinks that those are “skills” which can be “taught” I want to run screaming for the hills.</p>
<p>Oh, I think it’s a bunch of nonsense. What would happen if you tried to to teach the four I’s in high school? The kids would sleep in your class! Kids are WELL prepared today!
Calmom; So, where are YOU coming from? O</p>
<p>Oh, I think it’s a bunch of nonsense. What would happen if you tried to to teach the four I’s in high school? The kids would sleep in your class! Kids are WELL prepared today!
Calmom; So, where are YOU coming from? Of course my kids are happy and doing well. Son loving his job (at 24), always finding the things he likes to do , plays, a good book store, a good restaurant, intellectual discussions and in summer, a path to mountain bike on with friends!) Daughter 23, teacher , went on trip cross country with girlfriends ladt June, nnow married living in a Florida golf course community, expecting her first baby-yes, planning to give up her job until kids in school)
I have confidence in the younger generation. -The smart ones.</p>
<p>My son has been self-supporting and living on his own since age 20.</p>
<p>But I always raised my kids to be self-sufficient and able to make their own decisions. Levine didn’t just talk about the schools - he talked about what parents need to be doing, too. So his advice is pretty close to what I did anyway - that doesn’t mean that his advice is the only way to go, but it’s far from being nonsense.</p>
<p>I think SBMom’s post says things pretty well.</p>
<p>Calmom; I’m not arguing with you. It’s very hard to talk with folks in Cal. because their school system is in such a shambles in so many counties. I don’t know if you are in a good or poor district. I can only say that in my area, the school district is doing a fine job of preparing young people. Kids identify themselves before they are in 12th grade. They know if they are the material for college or the working world and there are SO many diverse programs to meet their educational needs. A kid can take restaurant management , car repair, police work, EMT, etc. or plan or joining the armed forces. If a child is planning on college everything is in place for him to determine a major, AP’s , specialty clubs, trips to colleges, and excellent counseling. There are a multitude of reasons one boy or girl stays at home after college and doesn’t enter grad or professional school. good reasons, including depression, mental illness, he hasn’t studied or passed the exams or gotten accepted anywhere, or maybe it’s just easy for him to cut grass with a landscaper right now and that is all he wants to do. Young people are like that. I bet any amount of money the author of the book spent some time sitting at home reading a book or watching tv when he could have done something more useful in his life. I don’t buy into theories that ‘kids are so and so’, - kids are not, there are all kinds of kids. And if you just keep pushing someone, maybe you will just push them into a heart attack or an ulcer.
Life does not NEED to be rushed. Some will achieve in an orderly advancing pace, some will achieve in an up one, down two step, and some will just sit there and not achieve. And this happened 10 yrs ago, 30 yrs ago, 50 yrs ago and 100 yrs ago.</p>
<p>Backhandgrip, the “author of that book”, Mel Levine a nationally-recognized pediatrician and expert in learning and child development. one of the nation’s leading pediatricians and experts on learning. He has written dozens of books, and director of a nonprofit foundation called “All Kinds of Minds” which has developed programs that are implemented in various ways in school districts all around the country. You don’t have to agree with him, but your dismissing his ideas out of hand – when you have already completely misstated them, so obviously spent very little time in trying to understand them – just shows that you are making a snap judgment without making any effort at all to understand what you are passing judgment on. </p>
<p>I’m glad your school district is so wonderful – there was no reason for you to engage in California-bashing. Mel Levine is at the University of North Carolina – while his patients travel from all over the country to see him, I’m sure that his observations are not particularly directed at California.</p>