We did wonder about Hamilton, given the strong sciences. It seems a bit remote and maybe leans a little too preppy/bro culture/conservative for my kid–though I might have that completely wrong.
Good to know that Utica has good things to offer.
S24 had very similar interests. At Williams now (music is robust and many opportunities and music faculty very responsive). He applied also to Emory, Macalaster, Davidson and dual degree programs at Northwestern, Vanderbilt. Oberlin and St. Olaf were not interesting to him but would definitely have similar feels.
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Thanks so much! I think we should visit Bard. Do you know anything about the strength of its STEM programs?
Kalamazoo and Earlham both seem like wonderful schools and like they could be good fits–except for their size. Earlham is under 1000, I think, and Kalamazoo not much more than 1000. DC is pretty sure that fewer than around 1500 would feel too small.
We’ll definitely visit Tufts. I don’t know if it’s attainable! (Would guess Tufts and Bowdoin–as well as Rice, Williams, Brown, Northwestern, would be extremely tough admits for DC).
Of the Maine colleges, Bates seems like it might be the best fit due to its friendly, slightly artsy, slightly laid back reputation (not sure if this is accurate). Plus a tiny bit less selective. I think Colby may be a little too preppy/sporty/bro culture
(but I may be wrong–or maybe all NESCACS have this to some degree).
I appreciate the story about your kid’s friends who decoupled their music lives from their college lives. Good to think flexibly.
We visited Haverford. Seems great. I think you’re right about the vibe. Maybe too small for DC.
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This is great to hear! So glad your son is having such a good experience at Williams. I suspect it would be a tough admit for my kid, but I think we should visit.
I would suggest RIT - though a bit bigger than your size range, it seems like it would be a likely admit for your child for chemistry. While they are known for engineering and comp sci, their sciences department is also very solid. Kids are friendly and definitely quirky. Greek life is there but very few participate. Kids tend to be artistic and nerdy but there’s no bro culture and it’s not cutthroat competitive. RIT gives a performing arts scholarship that’s pretty easy to earn and draws a lot of musically inclined people who don’t necessarily want to major in it so there’s a great campus music scene (several top notch orchestras and several other performing groups like percussion ensemble, steel band, African drumming, a rock band type club, etc.) They even have their own campus recording studio that produces records. There are tons of other quirky clubs and teams (esports, chess, quiz bowl, humans vs zombies, etc.) Rochester is a small city but definitely has a cool artsy/music scene. FWIW, my son toured both U Rochester and RIT in the same weekend and felt much more at home on RIT’s campus – he thought UR was too small and like there were too many greek/popular bro-types there, if that makes any sense. RIT felt like his people from the getgo and he has been super happy there.
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Thanks so much for this. Yes, I think we should visit Clark. I’m not clear how strong the chemistry department is there. Do you have a sense? Great to know it has good music.
We walked around Amherst (College and town) and liked the feel. Probably too reachy? Haven’t taken a formal tour.
I’m encouraging DC to create a portfolio for a music supplement. Good to know that a supplemental LoR from a piano instructor would be part of the supplement. DC’s teacher went to Oberlin Conservatory, so maybe this could be helpful.
Your last point is definitely one to consider as well. DC would almost certainly not choose to be a music major (though who knows?!). Maybe a minor.
Oberlin is currently making a concerted effort to make Conservatory courses and lessons more accessible to the LAC students, but priority still goes to Con students, of course. Unclear how easy it is for non-Con students to get into music theory, music history, etc. And lessons would be with Con students rather than professors, but the Con students would be great, too, I’m sure.
Thank you! We’ll look into Case Western.
I totally agree that St. Olaf seems like it could be a good fit. Not quite sure why DC had such a strong “No” in response to it. I have tried to convey, as you have, that religion requirement is quite loose.
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Thank you! Totally agree that the summer visits we did (Wesleyan, Vassar, Whitman) were not too useful, other than to get a sense of campus and location.
Thank you!
Kalamazoo sounds wonderful. I wish it were larger.
Hadn’t considered Willamette. We’ll look into it. Seems like a good size.
F & M is a great school. I wonder if it might have a bit of a “pre-professional” and somewhat preppy/conservative vibe, which might not fit. But worth looking into!
S24 submitted a high quality music supplement for all schools. There were variable requirements even with the LACs and he was careful to send exactly what each school wanted. There were some schools that wanted a recommendation from his primary music teacher so this is vital. He also reached out to teachers at all of the schools high on his list and had sample lessons and coordinated this with visits to the music department if possible and zoom if not.
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Thank you! I hadn’t known that such a list existed. Good to see Carleton there–and St. Olaf. Also Colby, UVM, and Hamilton–ones we perhaps should consider.
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Seems like a good one to check out. Someone else recommended RIT, so we could do both in one trip.
Thank you so much for this suggestion. It sounds like it could be a great fit! We should definitely visit both RIT and U Rochester. It’s helpful to hear that there may be a bit of a greek/bro culture at the latter.
Love the description of the city of Rochester being so artsy.
Sounds like our kids have similar interests and would have similar friend groups. So glad your son is loving RIT!
This is so helpful. Thank you.
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With respect to further research, the Princeton Review provides perhaps a few dozen survey-based rankings. Some are fairly narrow, such as those related to high alcohol consumption (e.g., Lots of Hard Liquor | The Princeton Review). Others are broader and entirely favorable, such as these, which may be of interest to you:
By browsing, you will encounter other Princeton Review rankings, which may be of additional interest.
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If Pomona College is on your possibles list, then you should do a two-fer and look at Harvey Mudd College also. Both are part of the Claremont College Consortium, and both can fulfill your student’s criteria. HMC is a LAC that focuses on STEM. It has an excellent chemistry department that is one of the top feeders of students onto PhDs (number 2 on the per capita list in the first reply above), and excels in the other STEM fields as well. Mudd does take a liberal arts approach in that it wants students to take 25-30% of coursework in humanities, SS, and arts to understand the impact of STEM on society. Music could be a part of that. HMC is small (900 students), but being able to take classes at any of the 5 undergraduate colleges in the Consortium means the student is effectively part of a 7000 person campus. HMC is also “reachy”, but well worth your student’s consideration.
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For current juniors there’s plenty of time to gather information. If you and your child have time, I’d suggest following some real students on their social media. In many of the schools you’ve listed there are students publishing “a day in xxx” vlogs. Also the student orgs’ social media can reflect a lot (via posts or the lack of).
My daughter graduated from Rice. From our experience, I think Rice fits your expectation very well. One of her friends went straight to a fully funded PhD program in chemical engineering after completing BS at Rice.
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Kalamazoo does have cross-registration with Western Michigan U, which is only half a mile away and has almost 14K undergrads; so the local student community isn’t limited to just K-College. And WMU has very strong performing arts.
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The kids know. If they didn’t feel a fit, just because you did, they know what they want. I loved several schools mine both hated upon visiting. It happens.
Dickinson ?
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I am also going to add a vote in favor of at least visiting Kalamazoo. It is such a strong fit in every other way, and I do think sharing the city with Western Michigan makes it feel like a bigger experience in some ways. And for what it is worth, it has WAAAAAY more kids majoring in Chemistry than you would normally expect from a college that size. So I think that would also help make it feel a little bigger than its raw student count would suggest.
I also would add a vote for checking out William & Mary, although that is more target-to-reachy OOS these days. Still it is the exact sort of research university that tends to appeal to kids who, say, like Carleton or WashU (which I know because my S24 liked all of those).
Another question–any thought to trying to go for an honors program to try to make a bigger research university feel smaller? This may not be your first choice approach, but if you are looking for some more alternatives, something like, say, Pitt with Honors could be pretty appealing:
Great location in a fun and friendly city, very strong Chem department (which places a good number of kids in PhDs, see linked list), and I think a decent number of kids do find the Honors program makes it easier to “find their people” early on (once you are an upper-level major in something like Chem, I think that becomes less of a concern, but their experience in the first year or two may benefit from such a program).
I admittedly know much less about the honors program at Minnesota, but it is otherwise a college I think has a lot of the same virtues as Pitt, including a very strong Chem department and being located in a fun and friendly city (Minnesota Nice is a real thing, so if your kid liked Carleton . . . ). And in fact it does have an honors program:
Again this does not have to be Plan A, but at least in my experience there are academicky kids who usually like smaller colleges who see these as potentially viable alternative paths. And actually, sometimes they end up really liking a high-level research department in their area of interest combined with an honors experience for the transition period to college, such that they just choose one of these options over smaller colleges.
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