I agree that exploring a larger university is worth considering. Small schools simply can’t match the level of research opportunities, advanced labs, cutting-edge equipment, and experienced faculty that are available at major universities with significant funding.
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I would note from one perspective, this is really just a matter of timing.
Like if you are planning to do a PhD program anyway, you are eventually going to end up at research university, presumably one with a significant department in your field. And likely will be spending most of your years there.
But for undergrad, you can of course start at an independent college, then transition to the research university for the PhD.
There are pros and cons either way, and I think it actually depends on when you are talking about in college.
Like, I do think the first couple years of college in a big research university can be not so great for some academicky kids. For example, if you are a Bio or Chem kid, you may find a lot of premeds and such in your first few classes, and you may not see them as really your sorts of kids. But of course eventually most of them are doing something else (many will have dropped out of the premed track, and others will be majoring in something else even if still premeds), and your upper level major classes will be different.
That’s not to say a good independent college doesn’t have any pros at that point either. Like, upper-level majors in such a college are usually going to be the kids doing the things normally grad students would be doing in terms of research, maybe being TAs, and so on. Of course there is just going to be less of that stuff needing to be done. But I do think those opportunities help explain why LACs can be such strong per capita PhD feeders.
But anyway, point being you can sort of see this as at least three different periods–the initial college period, the late college period, and the PhD period. And exactly where you want to start the research university experience could be any of those.
OK, so suppose you are a kid who thinks ideally you would start your research university experience in the middle of those options, the late college period. Then an honors program may well be a good choice for you.
Of course you have to be careful, because an honors program is unlikely to be exactly like being at an independent college for the early college period. Still, when evaluating the pros and cons of different paths, I certainly think it is reasonable for some kids to think that ends up striking the best overall balance.
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With respect to lab facilities, students at a variety of schools appear to appreciate the spaces and equipment available to them:
The above site includes both Union College and Caltech, for example.
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Thank you! Nice to see that some of the schools we’ve looked at are on the list of best colleges for classroom experience. I really appreciate your help.
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Yeah, high level, you have been doing a great job identifying potentially suitable colleges! So we are more just giving you a few more to consider, but I don’t think some major overhaul is required.
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This is so interesting and nuanced. Thank you for breaking it down like that.
I think that because DC likes learning in general–and because it’s possible that there could be interest in other disciplines (history, philosophy, English) and maybe even a shift from STEM to something else (though probably unlikely), LACs might be best. I think grad school is highly likely, so, as you say, all the benefits of a research university would be available then.
Also, on the LAC tours we’ve been on, there’s been lot of emphasis on research opportunities that maybe wouldn’t be available to undergrads at big research universities–given that it’s grad students who get the bulk of the research opportunities at big schools. Not sure how accurate this is.
I do think it would be good to look at honors colleges at big schools. Thank you for that suggestion. I hadn’t thought of Pitt. Great to know about the strong chem program there. Also will look into University of MN. MSP great. I agree with you about the MN Nice thing being real.
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So grateful for the guidance.
We will take a serious look at Kalamazoo, William & Mary, Pitt, and U of MN!
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All colleges are LACs - at least contained within - short of specialty schools.
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My kids both went to publics - Alabama (large) and one still at Charleston (mid size).
Research opportunities are abundant. Most don’t want but they are there. They are sent via email, mentioned by profs, and all one has to do is ask a favored professor. My son’s college gf did research all five years - through a Masters.
So people think this but it’s not true.
You might find a higher % of desiring students at an LAC want to do research but that might also lead to more difficulty. Or you might find at the large schools that they feed via the Honors College because those are your higher echelon students.
But no matter where your student chooses, research opportunities will be there if desired and the student makes an effort.
I personally think when people note this is an LAC advantage that they are not correct.
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Very good point.
I think I just worry a bit that being tired/grumpy/having a so-so tour guide on a given day, etc could affect perception and lead to a knee-jerk reaction. But this is my kid’s process, and I need to trust it.
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It absolutely does. On the no reply visit chat, many eliminate schools based on the tour guide.
Crazy but at the same time admissions is a sales department. You’d think they’d always have their A game.
I’m sure people wrongly dismiss schools and people likely apply to the wrong schools but were sold by the tour guide.
It’s best - IMHO - if the student walks campus and the surrounds and stops and talks to kids. Same thing in the dining hall regardless of the tour’s effectiveness unless something just stands out as not good - for example my daughter knew right away that Miami Ohio and Elon, while gorgeous, were too remote for her and GW far too urban. So those we ‘safely’ left. But on others we stopped and chatted. It helps.
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Thank you! It’s good to hear there’s plenty of time. Yes, great idea to tune into current college students’ social media and day-in-the-life vlogs.
Seems like Rice is really worth considering seriously.
Stopping and chatting can be really helpful. I just need to convince my kid that it’s not mortifying!! 
Very helpful insights. Thank you!
Hi, do you mind if I ask you a few questions?
Most people love their colleges and will be glad to give you feedback.
Tell her, they’re just people - and you’re never gonna see them again.
You are going somewhere four years, day after day. It’s a long time. Getting your info from a tour guide - not great. Yes we have study abroad and yes we have a cheese club and qidditch club. And yes I have a scripted corny joke.
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Good idea! A family friend who’s a science professor also recommended Harvey Mudd. I’d leaned away from it because of the size and also because I thought it might not have enough of an emphasis on disciplines other than STEM. But based on what you describe, it sounds like it could be a good fit. Thank you!
Love this!!! Thank you for the parenting support!!
My son applied to Dartmouth because the tour guide had keys to the theater. At 18 my son liked keys 
I was like “okay”!
I honestly think you have a good list already (the first batch) and Tufts is a must! Does he need others? It seems like you and he have done a great job so far.
Music letters of recommendation can be about many things besides talent: how the student works with others, considerate curiosity about a lot of subjects, work ethic, volunteers with seniors etc.
My kids applied in the dark ages when kids applied to 4 schools. There are so many good ones! I think you were smart to visit. My kids only applied to schools they had visited. Very quaint!
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If you end up going to Worcester to visit Clark, consider visiting WPI while there. Yes, it’s a STEM school, but it has a robust music program, both in terms of classes and groups with which one can perform (sample info, here https://www.wpi.edu/academics/departments/humanities-arts/music) It’s a group of generally somewhat quirky students, and the project based learning focus, and junior year term project, give a lot of opportunities for collaboration.
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It is not accurate.
Big research U’s have dozens of inter-disciplinary centers, research consortia, corporate funded labs, government funded labs, basic research, applied research, etc. The reason departments can support so many grad students is precisely because there are SO many opportunities. Most large U’s have more opportunities than they can fill. Undergrads have different skills than grad students so they aren’t interchangeable. And grad students are on a timeline with a ticking clock; they get admitted to the U for a specific (and often very narrow) topic so they aren’t even interchangeable with each other…
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That is so funny about the appeal of the keys!
Thank you for the encouragement about the current list. We will definitely look at Tufts. I feel like we might need a couple more safeties and matches, but I’m not sure.
Good advice about the music LoRs pointing to things beyond music as well.
I’m stunned by how many colleges kids apply to these days.