Lonesome Dove - August CC Book Club Selection

[Nrdsb4]

<p>Gus, Gus, and Gus.</p>

<p>And Clara.</p>

<p>And Deets.</p>

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>McMurtry was manipulative (in a good way) of the reader’s feelings for Gus. Before Gus rescued Lorie and started taking care of her, he seemed simply quirky and interesting to me. When Lorie fell in love with him, I did too. </p>

[Mary13]

<p>I can’t list the characters that most drew my attention, because really it’s all of them—everyone from (anti) heroes Gus and Call to the fascinating Sally Skull. My least favorite character (other than—obviously—Blue Duck and the other psychopaths) was Elmira. Even Jake, for all his selfishness, liked the company of people, was able to interact with them, and had a sense of humor. Elmira fit the definition of a egocentrist:</p>

<p>

Egocentrics regard themselves and their own opinions or interests as being the most important or valid. To them, self-relevant information is seen to be more important in shaping one’s judgments than are thoughts about others and other-relevant information. Egocentric people are unable to fully understand or to cope with other people’s opinions and the fact that reality can be different from what they are ready to accept. <a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egocentrism[/quote]”>Egocentrism - Wikipedia

</a></p>

<p>I don’t think anyone mentioned Newt in their lists, but he is very dear to my heart. I like the way he allowed himself to feel grief—he wasn’t “closed-up” yet (although you can sense him moving in that direction at the end, frustrated by Call’s silence). Sometimes, it seemed like Newt was expressing what I (i.e. the reader) felt:</p>

<p>

It seemed to him it would have been better if the Indians had ridden in and killed them all—having it happen one at a time was too much to bear, and it was happening to the best people too (p. 805).

</p>

<p>Also, as a mom, I got a laugh out of this sentence, “Newt had been curious about snow all the way north, but he had lost his jacket somewhere in Kansas, and now that snow had fallen he felt too cold to enjoy it” (p. 754). Of course he lost his jacket somewhere in Kansas. Doesn’t every teenage boy? </p>

[ignatius]

<p>^^^ LOL - My teenage boy certainly did.</p>

<p>Had to look up Sally Skull … and found this:</p>

<p><a href=“http://quizlet.com/12684739/lonesome-dove-characters-flash-cards/”>http://quizlet.com/12684739/lonesome-dove-characters-flash-cards/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[Nrdsb4]

<p>Are we allowed to talk about the movie?</p>

<p>I thought the casting for Gus was PERFECT. I felt like Robert Duvall HAD to have been in McMurtry’s mind when he wrote the character.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>I agree that Duvall was perfect. I don’t know who McMurtry had in mind, but James Garner was initially offered the part: <a href=“A Conversation With Lonesome Dove Director Simon Wincer – C&I Magazine”>http://www.cowboysindians.com/Cowboys-Indians/March-2014/Lonesome-Dove/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[scout59]

<p>I think both Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones were wonderful - even though I hear that Jones was too tall to be Woodrow? Is that right?</p>

<p>I thought there was some grumbling at first, when the casting was announced, but I thought the end result was superb. </p>

[Tiredofsnow]

<p>Hey, I said this back in post #100 (yay, post numbers!):</p>

<p>“I know I was influenced by seeing the miniseries, although I have no definite memories of watching it. I couldn’t read the Augustus sections without seeing and hearing Robert Duvall, though. What an actor. (Did you know he played Boo Radley in To Kill a Mockingbird??)”</p>

[mathmom]

<p>My teenage boys didn’t lose their jackets they just refused to wear them. Oldest wore a flimsy fleece, no matter how cold it was, it was only after he graduated from college that he’d admit that he might have been more comfortable in a down jacket. Younger son lived in a leather jacket all through college.</p>

<p>I haven’t seen the mini-series, but from the photos I’d have reversed Gus and Call. I see Call as the thin gaunt intense one and Gus as the more relaxed looking guy. Anyway I’d love to see it now - as soon as we’ve caught up with Orphan Black I’ll suggest it.</p>

<p>As for the characters. I liked all of them, but I can’t say I got any great sense of Pea Eye or Deets really. And Dish was mostly mildly irritating. I disliked Elmira a lot and was always glad when her parts of the story were over, though I was sorry she met yet another gruesome death - albeit off stage. I did like Newt a lot. I’d like to reread the book paying a little more attention to him.</p>

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>

Larry McMurtry’s original novel was based upon a screenplay that he had co-written with Peter Bogdanovich for a movie that was intended to star John Wayne as Call, James Stewart as Gus, and Henry Fonda as Jake Spoon, but the project collapsed when John Ford advised Wayne to reject the script.

</p>

<p><a href=“Lonesome Dove (miniseries) - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonesome_Dove_(TV_miniseries)&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Wow, there was a 1995 miniseries of the sequel, Streets of Laredo, with James Garner as Call, Sissy Spacek as Lorena, and Sam Shepard as Pea Eye.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>

@scout59

I thought there was some grumbling at first, when the casting was announced, but I thought the end result was superb.

</p>

<p>The article I linked to in post #225 has some fun casting trivia, as follows:</p>

<p>

C&I: We’ve talked about how perfectly cast Duvall and Jones were. But you auditioned some notable folks who didn’t make it into the miniseries, correct?</p>

<p>Wincer: We actually did a proper screen test for Julia Roberts [for the role of Lorena]. But she was very, very tall — and maybe a bit too young. But she did a wonderful audition. And Uma Thurman read for the part. And Kevin Spacey read for July Johnson. Kathy Bates read for Peach. And the list goes on. And then you think about the success actors who were in it have enjoyed since. People like Chris Cooper and Steve Buscemi. We had all of these wonderful actors who have gone on to become stars in their own right. It’s sort of lovely to see.

</p>

<p>

@Tiredofsnow

I couldn’t read the Augustus sections without seeing and hearing Robert Duvall, though. What an actor. (Did you know he played Boo Radley in To Kill a Mockingbird??)

</p>

<p>Boo Radley was Duvall’s debut film role – a character that couldn’t be more different from Gus McCrae!</p>

[Mary13]

<p>

@LasMa

The little bull. Another leader… am I detecting a pattern? He too refused to be subdued, even by the likes of a Montana bear.

</p>

<p>What do you think about that battle between the bear and the bull? Despite my earlier comments re the novel’s limited use of symbolism, that scene seems to cry out for interpretation. If I had to venture a guess, I would say it suggests the clash between the unsettled wilderness (bear) and the relentless, advancing civilization (bull). Gus knows that such a conflict is poised to begin:</p>

<p>

Soon the whites would come, of course, but what he was seeing was a moment between, not the plains as they had been, or as they would be, but a moment of true emptiness, with thousands of miles of grass resting unused, occupied only by remnants—of the buffalo, the Indians, the hunters (p. 434).

</p>

<p>Of course, there’s also the possibility that it’s just a very cool fight between a bear and a bull. :)</p>

[LasMa]

<p>NJTM, thanks for reminding me about Elmira’s “husband” the buffalo hunter. There’s something fascinating to me about his silence. </p>

<p>Mary, good question about the battle between our little bull and the bear. Off the top, it could be symbolic of the taming of the northern Plains, a ferocious struggle which both parties survive, despite grievous wounds. When I read it, I think I saw it more as the bull being this particular party’s talisman in their push into untamed country. It could be both, as well as a cool fight between a bear and a bull. :)</p>

[ignatius]

<p>I posted (#223) a link with flashcards of the characters. I noticed you can test your knowledge of the book - actually multiple times as the test can regenerate. No problem, I think, but … one of the first questions - list the 12 rivers crossed on the way to Montana. Really? I could only think of four off the top of my head … maybe could have come up with a couple more if I’d thought hard and it wasn’t so late. The rivers are important from first (which I couldn’t forget, duh) to last - I’ve heard the trip described as a ladder of rivers. How many can you name without looking? And spell correctly, as the test is a stickler for that.</p>

<p>*I also missed the name of Clara’s oldest daughter through no fault of my own. She went from older daughter to younger daughter in Streets of Laredo. I actually thought about it at the time but figured the author knew more than I did, so didn’t go back and check. (Larry, Larry, Larry [-X - read over your work) </p>

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>^I’m not even going to try to take that test. I’m terrible with remembering names. If you give me a name, I can tell you whether I’ve seen it before, and if I have, the odds are I’ll even know how to spell it…but just retrieving names from my memory – no way</p>

<p>I especially have this trouble with movies. Unless there’s something in the film like Stanley Kowalski bellowing “Stella!!” or Patsy Cline’s husband-to-be telling her his name is Charlie Dick (Sweet Dreams with Jessica Lange and Ed Harris), the names of the characters just don’t tend to stick in my mind.</p>

<p>I mentioned that the buffalo hunter in Lonesome Dove was a memorable character, but I was too lazy to go back and look up his name. It’s Big Zwey. Sorry, Big Zwey!</p>

[Mary13]

<p>

@ignatius

one of the first questions - list the 12 rivers crossed on the way to Montana

</p>

<p>Oh please, I can’t list the 12 streets between my front door and the mall. I’m going straight to the cheat sheet:</p>

<p>Nueces, San Antonio, Red, Canadian, Arkansas, Republican, Platte, Powder, Salt, Yellowstone, Marais, Milk</p>

[ignatius]

<p>Yeah … I actually got the Nueces, Canadian, Powder, and Milk. I like how that got me from beginning to end … so, who cares if I skipped a few here and there in the middle.</p>

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>A useless bit of trivia: “nueces” means “nuts” in Spanish.</p>

<p>

Early settlers named the river after the numerous pecan trees along its banks.

</p>

[Mary13]

<p>

@mathmom

Dish was mostly mildly irritating

</p>

<p>Dish was one of those (as you mentioned in post #77) who didn’t seem to evolve much on the drive. Maybe he’ll come into his own at Clara’s, in his element with all the horses. There was one scene on the trail where Dish’s better self emerged, after Mouse was wounded:</p>

<p>

Mouse’s hind legs were quivering. </p>

<p>“Well you’d better put him down,” Call said, looking at Newt. “He’s finished.”</p>

<p>Newt was about to take the reins when Dish Boggett intervened. “Oh, now, Captain,” he said quietly, “a feller oughtn’t to have to shoot his own horse when there’s others around that can do it as well.” And without another word he led the bleeding horse a hundred yards away and shot him. He came back, carrying the saddle. Newt was very grateful–he knew he would have had a hard time shooting Mouse (p. 543).

</p>

[mathmom]

<p>Good point, I’d forgotten Dish did that. All is forgiven!</p>

<p>The only river I could remember was the Yellowstone. Well that and the fact that they cross the Rio Grande into Mexico before they ever head north.</p>