Lonesome Dove - August CC Book Club Selection

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>I think both Gus and Call missed Lonesome Dove terribly – especially Call. The trip to Montana wasn’t done because the men really wanted to be cattle ranchers, but to have one last great adventure.</p>

<p>Call didn’t feel comfortable being the sole leader of a sizable group of men, and he didn’t feel comfortable around Newt. </p>

<p>It was clear, from the writing, what a tremendous relief it was for Call to get back to Lonesome Dove. His finding Bolivar back there was a perfect touch. Like Call, Bolivar was content to live a relatively isolated life. He was very much a “known quantity” to Call. Bolivar could provide a slight modicum of companionship, and he was young enough that he could presumably take care of Call if the need arose.</p>

<p>Gus knew that Call would welcome the challenge of taking his body back to Texas. Call might very well have died on the trip, but Gus knew that Call would rather “die with his boots on” than some other way.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>A testimonial from the Chronicle of Pigs and Horses forum (now officially added to the list of Websites I Never Thought I’d Visit):</p>

<p>

A small pig literally wandered into our place one day a few years back, and my three horses ADOPTED her…she herded with them, she slept in the round bale at night, and she ate their food with them out of rubber feed tubs on the ground. These are “piggy” horses, and they ALL let her eat with them! And while they wouldn’t let the dogs get near their legs, the pig could wind around their legs and they didn’t bat an eye.</p>

<p>The funniest thing was when I’d go for a ride (or even ride in our outside ring)…the pig would come, and it didn’t simply sit in the middle of the ring…it FOLLOWED us. We had to take frequent “pig breaks” because it was huffing and puffing so! On trail rides, too. It was a hoot.
<a href=“Chronicle Forums”>Chronicle Forums

</a></p>

<p>You can bet Woodrow Call never took a single “pig break.” Sounds like the perfect excuse for Gus, though.</p>

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>^Good find, Mary!</p>

[Mary13]

<p>NJTheatreMOM, I agree with your analysis of Gus’s motives.</p>

<p>I don’t think Gus is under any illusion that the trip will “reform” Call somehow, or show him the error of his ways. He knew his friend too well for that. It bothers me, though, that the request meant Call would have to abandon Newt, which is something Gus definitely didn’t want. My only thought is that Gus hoped that even if Call couldn’t acknowledge paternity, he might ask Newt to accompany him on the trip. And yet (thinking aloud here), that wouldn’t have been doing Newt any favors – not only because of the hardship, but because there is no future in the town of Lonesome Dove for Newt.</p>

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@SouthJerseyChessMom

He’s quite the combination of genetics and environment-Call’s leadership, and Gus’s democratic " humanity". When Newt says to Deets, if I’m ever put in charge " the first thing, I’d do is raise your wages," is a glimpse into the new world emerging out of that racist, sexist world

</p>

<p>Great observation.</p>

[ignatius]

<p>^^^ Agree</p>

<p>SJCM: I guess I’ve never put much thought into the why of things because those parts of the book straddle truth so closely. I figure people are complicated.</p>

<p>

If you remember “Lonesome Dove,” you will remember the scene where Gus McRae and the old man are caught in an Indian attack. Well, that attack happened pretty much the way the movie depicts.</p>

<p>WJ Wilson (one-armed Wilson) was the person who accompanied Loving to scout out the territory
before the cattle were to be driven to Ft. Sumner on a contract they had with the Army to feed the
Indians. They left Goodnight and the rest of the men with the cattle. Goodnight had made Wilson and Loving promise to travel only by night lest the Comanches attack. But Loving was in a hurry and did not listen to Wilson or Goodnight.</p>

<p>The Indians attacked and the two men took shelter in a river redoubt, where they held off warriors for
hours. Finally, the Indians wanted to parley and Loving stood up to see where they were. A brave shot him and the arrow went through his arm and into his side.</p>

<p>Wilson’s descriptions of the events that follow are in the historical records kept in Texas’ Cushman Library and other Texas Historical Society documents:</p>

<p>"When I went down the river about a hundred yards, and saw an Indian sitting on his horse out in the river, with the water almost over the horse’s back. He was sitting there splashing the water with his foot, just playing. I got under some smart-weeds and drifted by until I got far enough below the Indian where I could get out. Then I made a three days’ march barefooted. Everything in that country had stickers in it. On my way I picked up the small end of a teepee pole which I used for a walking stick.</p>

<p>The last night of this painful journey the wolves followed me all night. I would give out, just like a horse, and lay down in the road and drop off to sleep and when 1 would awaken the wolves would be all around me, snapping and snarling. I would take up that stick, knock the wolves away, got started again and the wolves would follow behind. I kept that up until daylight, when the wolves quit me. About 12 o’clock on that last day I crossed a little mountain and knew the boys ought to be right in there somewhere with the cattle. I found a little place, a sort of cave, that afforded protection from the sun, and I could go no further. After a short time the boys came along with the cattle and found me."</p>

<p>Loving had been picked up by some Mexican vaqueros and taken to Ft. Sumner. By the time Goodnight arrived, Loving was in a bad way. The wound in his side had healed, but the doctor refused to amputate the arm, in which gangrene had set in. Goodnight and Wilson had to coerce the doctor to amputate the arm, but it was too late to save Loving. Oliver Loving asked Goodnight to provide for his family and to return his body to Weatherford, Texas, where he wanted to be buried.</p>

<p>Goodnight kept his promise. The 600-mile trip was probably the longest funeral procession of all time. It was made famous in “Lonesome Dove” when Captain Call takes Gus McRae’s body back to Texas from Montana. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.ejlanham.com/TheRealLonesomeDove.html[/quote]”>http://www.ejlanham.com/TheRealLonesomeDove.html

</a></p>

<p>Here you have Bose Ikard (Deets). Note the similarity of his grave marker to Deets (but he had a much happier end): <a href=“Bose Ikard, Charley Goodnight’s most trusted & respected cowhand.”>http://www.texasescapes.com/ClayCoppedge/Bose-Ikard.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[ignatius]

<p>Back to fiction: I think Call belongs in Texas. He wants the ranch for Newt … to leave him something of worth … his way of acknowledging paternity, maybe.</p>

<p>

“I ain’t a boy,” Call said. […] I ain’t going there to law. I’m going there to run cattle. Jake said it was a cattleman’s paradise."</p>

<p>“You ain’t a cattleman, Call,” Augustus said. “No more than I am. If we was to get a ranch I don’t know who would run it.” </p>

<p>It seemed to Call the mare had probably stood on three legs long enough, and he had surely jawed with Gus long enough. Sometimes Gus sang a strange tune. He had killed as many Indians as any Ranger, and had seen enough of their butchery that you’d think he knew why he was doing it; and yet when he talked he seemed to be on their side.</p>

<p>“As to the ranch,” he said, “the boy could run it. He’s nearly grown.”</p>

<p>Augustus puzzled over that for a moment, as if it had never occurred to him. “Well maybe so Call,” He said. “I guess he could run it if he was a mind to, and if you would let him.”</p>

<p>“I don’t know why he wouldn’t be a mind to,” Call said and walked over to the mare.

</p>

<p>Found at the end of Chapter 7 - I decided that’s a better marker here than a page number.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>I didn’t know anything about Oliver Loving and Charles Goodnight until I began doing outside reading prior to our discussion. Quite a lot of parallels! Here’s a good summary: <a href=“http://www.knology.net/~lonesomedove/ldstory.html”>http://www.knology.net/~lonesomedove/ldstory.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>In retrospect, it’s amusing that Woodrow Call meets “himself” on the way back to Texas (p. 848).</p>

[PlantMom]

<p>Thanks for the links to the pig stories and to the Oliver Loving and Charles Goodnight story parallels! I have to admit I was having the same thoughts about websites I never thought I’d see when I was reading about the pigherders of Sardinia and Corsica last night. We have wild pigs here, in Florida. Nasty little critters that run in destructive groups and they’re to be avoided, especially if they have tusks! </p>

<p>I too puzzled over the motive for Gus asking Call to transport his body, but I agree with what NJTM said above. It’s a bit surprising, though, that Call would come through on his promise to carry Gus’s body back (amputated leg and all :o ), and he agreed to carry the letters to the women, but would not say the words that would acknowledged paternity of Newt. Perhaps his guilt over not doing that pushed him towards Texas.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>

@PlantMom

It’s a bit surprising, though, that Call would come through on his promise to carry Gus’s body back (amputated leg and all :o ), and he agreed to carry the letters to the women, but would not say the words that would acknowledged paternity of Newt.

</p>

<p>I think that’s because Call considered the delivery of Gus and the letters to be a job, and he always excelled at completing a hard (physical) task; but he saw Newt as living evidence of a embarrassing weakness.</p>

<p>I was moved and saddened by how close Call came to telling Newt about their relationship–the way he would imagine the conversation in his head, unable to follow through. “If he happened to be alone with the boy, his words went away. At the thought of speaking about it a tightness came into his throat, as if a hand had seized it” (p. 834).</p>

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

<p>There were several times when I needed tissues including the scene Mary13 mentioned above, when Call could not speak the words to Newt , instead his actions spoke loudest, gifting Hall ■■■■■ and his gun to Newt. Beautiful. I loved this book! </p>

<p>Regarding the antimythic quality Mcnurty tried to convey. Many times Gus reflected on the changing world around them, “did we do the right things”, " are things better now"? The mass destruction of the bison, the Indian’s food source was made more profound when the starving straggling Indians, were discovered gorging on the horses. the Rangers are no longer needed, part of history. </p>

<p>It was Gus’s acceptance of people, Mexicans, Deets, and “whores”, treating them with respect that gave this book so much depth, and the “antimythic” sentiment. </p>

<p>It was Clara, who brought " clarity", and insight, and was my favorite character, after Gus. Did all important characters pass through her domain? It was her perspective, that Gus would never be the devoted, loyal husband, he thinks he could have been, and she’s probably right. Gus is a lovable rascal, and incapable of monogamy. It’s hard not to have the " fairy tale " happily ever after endings we crave.</p>

<p>Early in the story, at page 200, I messaged Ignatius, hoping Call and Lorena would somehow end up together. I thought that Call was the character who would have the most change, given how cold, aloof, he was in the beginning,so judgemental. Now of course, I see that was folly, Mcnurty is not Jane Austen. </p>

<p>Kudos to Mcnurty for bringing lonely, unhappy Call back to Lonesome Dove, so Truly barren without his comrade Gus.The journey wasn’t about establishing a new life in Montany- it was about the demise of the old life.
As Thomas Wolfe…says. From Wiki ---- <a href="http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Can’t_Go_Home_Again"&gt;http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Can’t_Go_Home_Again&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>“…You can’t go back home to your family, back home to your childhood … back home to a young man’s dreams of glory and of fame … back home to places in the country, back home to the old forms and systems of things which once seemed everlasting but which are changing all the time – back home to the escapes of Time and Memory.”</p>

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>SJCM, your eloquent post helps me understand what an accomplishment it was for McMurtry to create a story that was so very sad and so very appealing at the same time.</p>

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

<p>And, Nj TheaterMom your post helps me understand the ending! </p>

[PlantMom]

<p>

There were several times when I needed tissues including the scene Mary13 mentioned above, when Call could not speak the words to Newt , instead his actions spoke loudest, gifting Hall **** and his gun to Newt. Beautiful. I loved this book!

</p>

<p>This is exactly where I needed my tissue box, SJCM! All that Call couldn’t say was done with his gifts of time, talent, and treasure to Newt.</p>

<p>I marked this passage on pg. 811 of my paperback copy because it seemed to explain so much of what I like about Gus and Call and this book. McMurtry deftly manages humor with serious thoughts and revelations about his key characters. </p>

<p>

“They ain’t expecting cattle,” Augustus said. “There’s never been cattle here before. They’re probably just out hunting, trying to lay in enough meat to last them the winter.”</p>

<p>“I guess we’ll meet soon enough,” Call said.</p>

<p>“If not too soon. They may come biling out of them hills and wipe us out any day. Then they’d have enough meat to last the winter. They’d be rich Indians, and we’d be dead fools.”</p>

<p>“Fools for doing what?” Call asked. “This country’s looking better all the time.”</p>

<p>“Fools for living the lives we’ve lived,” Augustus said.</p>

<p>“I’ve enjoyed mine,” Call said. “What was wrong with yours?”</p>

<p>“I should have married again,” Augustus said. “Two wives ain’t very many, Solomon beat me by several hundred, although I’ve got the same equipment he had. I could have managed eight or ten at least. I don’t know why I stuck with this scraggly old crew.”</p>

<p>“Because you didn’t have to work, I guess,” Call said. “You sat around, and we worked.”</p>

<p>“I was working in my head, you see,” Augustus said. “I was trying to figure out life. If I’d had a couple more fat women to lay around with I might have figured out the puzzle.”</p>

<p>“I never understood why you didn’t stay in Tennessee, if your family was rich,” Call said.</p>

<p>“Well, it was tame, that’s why,” Augustus said. “I didn’t want to be a doctor or a lawyer, and there wasn’t nothing else to do in those parts. I’d rather go outlaw than be a doctor or a lawyer.”

</p>

[Mary13]

<p>SJCM, I loved your post – it captured the core of the novel so well.</p>

<p>I never loathed Call the way Clara did. He frustrated me; I pitied him. But I didn’t see his silence and aloofness as evidence of pride or over-confidence. On the contrary, when we are allowed into his inner thoughts, we see he is filled with self-doubt. When Clara says scornfully to Call that he gave Newt, “Your horse but not your name”, his answer is telling: “I put more value on the horse” (p. 845). </p>

<p>PlantMom, I agree with you about the rich dialogue–not just between Gus and Call, but with others as well. Although he was only a minor character, I thought Wilbarger’s conversations with Gus ranged from laugh-out-loud funny to terribly bittersweet.</p>

[ignatius]

<p>

@Mary

I was moved and saddened by how close Call came to telling Newt about their relationship–the way he would imagine the conversation in his head, unable to follow through. “If he happened to be alone with the boy, his words went away. At the thought of speaking about it a tightness came into his throat, as if a hand had seized it”

Call just can’t quite take that final step - acknowledging paternity. His actions tell a different story: not letting Newt handle a gun or ride into Mexico for the longest time during the Lonesome Dove years; the cattle ranch in Montana, with Newt in mind before the drive even starts; Call’s absolute fury when the army scout quirts Newt; and, of course, (as SJCM points out) giving the boy Hell ■■■■■ and saddle and his own father’s watch. The men together - Call, Gus, Pea Eye, and Deets raised a fine young man. </p>

<p>

@SJCM

It was Clara, who brought " clarity", and insight, and was my favorite character, after Gus. Did all important characters pass through her domain? It was her perspective, that Gus would never be the devoted, loyal husband, he thinks he could have been, and she’s probably right. Gus is a lovable rascal, and incapable of monogamy.

I loved Gus the first time I read the book - 25 years or so ago - and, of course, still do. He’s lovable. This time around I understood better (my age, I guess) Clara’s refusal to marry him and am glad she chose wisely. It would have meant unhappiness for them both. Now he has regrets about Lorie:

At night, when she finally slept, he would sit in the tent, pondering it all. He could see the campfire. Whatever boys weren’t night herding would be standing around it, swapping jokes. Probably all of them envied him, for he had a woman and they didn’t. He envied them back, for they were carefree and he wasn’t. Once started, love couldn’t be stopped. He would be lucky to get again such easy pleasures as the men enjoyed, sitting around a campfire swapping jokes. Though he felt deeply fond of Lorena, he could also feel a yearning to be loose again and have nothing to but win at cards. (chapter 83)

</p>

<p>PlantMom I needed a pile of tissues to cope with the death of Deets. :(( </p>

<p>

@Mary

I never loathed Call the way Clara did. He frustrated me; I pitied him. But I didn’t see his silence and aloofness as evidence of pride or over-confidence.

Clara is jealous - plain and simple. Call has Gus in a way she realizes early she never can. She recognizes the flaws in Gus that keep him from being a good husband but that doesn’t mean she can’t resent Call for standing in her way. </p>

[Mary13]

<p>

@SouthJerseyChessMom

It was Clara, who brought " clarity", and insight, and was my favorite character, after Gus. Did all important characters pass through her domain?

</p>

<p>Clara’s house was a safe haven, like what we kids used to call “gool” during an exhausting game of tag. Was it realistic that all these characters kept meeting one another and ending up at the same place? I guess so, if they were following an established trail. Yet looking at ignatius’ wonderful Texas Monthly map (post #75), the expanse of the land makes such encounters seem nearly impossible, or at least highly coincidental (a hallmark of many great literary sagas). Perhaps with such a sparse population, the West was just the biggest small town in the world.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>By the way, looking at the map reminds me of a comment that McMurtry made about his own error of omission: He forgot to show the drive crossing the Union Pacific Railroad:</p>

<p>

I made a note to myself in the first draft to put in the Union Pacific Railroad–I wanted them to cross it in the big sandstorm–but then I forgot my own note. A long novel often involves such sloppiness.

</p>

<p>(an excerpt from Novel History: Historians and Novelists Confront America’s Past (and Each Other) <a href=“Novel History: Historians and Novelists Confront America's Past (and Each Other) - Mark C. Carnes - Google Books”>Novel History: Historians and Novelists Confront America's Past (and Each Other) - Mark C. Carnes - Google Books)</p>

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>Another thing McMurtry forgot: what happened to July and Elmira’s cow when Elmira skipped town! They definitely had a cow that McMurtry mentioned. People didn’t realize Elmira was gone until days after she’d left. But actually they would have known, because one of the following would have occurred: 1) She sold the cow; or 2) She let the cow loose to wander; or 3) She left the cow in its corral to bawl with discomfort from hunger and needing to be milked.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>^ The cow has a calf–the milk-pen calf that Joe is fond of roping–so it could be that Elmira just turned them loose together to graze before she left. But it’s true they are not mentioned again, not even by Peaches, who was was overly interested in the details of July and Elmira’s household.</p>

[ignatius]

<p>

@SJCM

The journey wasn’t about establishing a new life in Montany- it was about the demise of the old life.

Talk of age - and old timers - runs throughout *Lonesome Dove<a href=“and%20definitely%20its%20twenty-years-later%20sequel.”>/i</a> I wouldn’t swear to the ages of characters but have come up (more or less) with oldest to youngest. (I admit to some input from Streets of Laredo but know I could be more accurate if I’d read the prequels.)</p>

<p>Bolivar</p>

<p>Augustus
Call (only slightly younger) </p>

<p>Pea Eye and Deets</p>

<p>Clara (late 30s)</p>

<p>July Johnson</p>

<p>Lorie (just 20 or so - scarcely older - in years - than Newt)</p>

<p>Newt </p>

<p>*The various cowboys range in age from closer to Pea Eye (Soupy) on down (Dish).</p>

<p>*I don’t quite know where to slot either Po Campo or Blue Duck. Any suggestions? </p>

<p>And in case, you’ve never been stuck - or stuck looking for an alternate route - on a freeway for a trail ride, this is what it looks like:</p>

<p><a href=“Houston Rodeo Trail Ride And Downtown Skyline | Stockyard Photos”>Houston Rodeo Trail Ride And Downtown Skyline | Stockyard Photos;