<p>^Doubly sad because Lorie realized at one point – in retrospect – that it would have been wise of her to marry Wanz.</p>
<p>However, I did very much like reading of the joy and relief that Lorie experienced in Clara’s household…the comfort, the order, the girls…</p>
<p>Information on prostitution in the Old West. I had questions, especially about the women’s health. One interesting thing I saw was that prostitutes had the nickname of “soiled doves”. </p>
<p><a href=“Painted Ladies of the Old West – Legends of America”>http://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-paintedlady.html</a></p>
<p>NJTM: In the end, though, Lorie ends up better off in Clara’s household than she would have had she married Wanz. (Is there such a thing as retro-retrospect?)</p>
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Thanks for your “research” on the ages of the characters. It helps me “see” them. I’m glad I wasn’t way off in my guesstimate. I’ll only tweak the one above. Pea Eye - and possibly Deets, though I’m much less certain - probably signed on with the Captain around age sixteen/seventeen. I have a feeling (strong feeling based on the sequel) Call is five to eight years older than Pea. So in Lonesome Dove Call and Gus are somewhere in their mid-fifties (give or take a couple years) while Pea Eye and - again possibly - Deets are still in their forties. As you pointed out, when mentioning the cowhands, boys rather than men signed up to do a man’s job.</p>
<p>I understand the last line of the book refers to Wanz and Lorie, but for me it also brings to mind Call and Maggie.</p>
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<p>I agree, mathmom–and their pining away for various women didn’t make them any happier.</p>
<p>In the online book discussion at dailykos (where Mary got some of our questions), someone commented:</p>
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<p>But the women were just as restricted; their choices were either bad men, wandering men, or really dull and quiet men. Presumably somewhere in those towns there were a few ordinary and happy families, but the book is not about THEM.</p>
<p>I liked Lorie, too, and thought she and Clara were a lot alike, which Clara recognized (as ignatius pointed out). That’s why they got along right away. They both were briefly smitten by Jake, loved Gus, but knew that neither one could give them what they really wanted most–a stable family life. It’s too bad Clara had to settle for boring Bob in order to get that.</p>
<p>That makes sense, ignatius–Pea Eye and Deets are probably a bit younger than Call and Gus.</p>
<p>Probably Gus agreed with ignatius that Lorie was better off with Clara. Because I don’t think he ever mentioned Xavier’s offer to her:
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<p>Maybe Gus forgot. But from the ending Xavier wouldn’t have been alive anyway.</p>
<p>I don’t plan to read Streets of Laredo, so I looked at a synopsis of it. Apparently Pea Eye plays a rather large role in that book. Who has read/is reading it…ignatius, and…?? I am very curious about Pea Eye’s further story. Anyone who knows about this…would you maybe be willing to PM me?</p>
<p>I’m not quite through with it - a day or two should do it. I’ll be glad to PM you. I can probably already tell you what you want to know. PM me if you have any specific question.</p>
<p>Thanks, ignatius. I PMed you. Actually, I think I PMed you four times by mistake. There was no indication the message was sent, so I kept trying!</p>
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<p>I think the depiction of love–or what these men perceive to be love–is accurate given the circumstances, especially for the younger men. (I’m not talking about Gus, who has more wisdom and life experience.) </p>
<p>For the most part, the men are lonely, struggling to survive in a dangerous environment, and hungry for female companionship. “Love at first sight” is about the only option available. During World War II, my mom was proposed to several times by young men who barely knew her. I think the situation is comparable. The men believed themselves in love because they wanted so desperately to have someone, but there was neither time nor opportunity to develop a real relationship.</p>
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<p>And it appears that Clara may settle for boring July Johnson to maintain that stability. He’s like a mini-Bob. I was initially surprised when she told July to propose again in a year, but maybe she knows what she needs. Seems a little unfair to July, though. Tied to another woman whom he can only disappoint.</p>
<p>I don’t know. I think Clara has learned a thing or two too. I don’t think she’s going to marry July unless she can train him to be more like what she wants. </p>
<p>I remember a lot of unrequited love when I was in college - both friends and at least in one case a personal experience - so it all seemed pretty accurate to me!</p>
<p>FWIW, I always imagined Deets as older than Gus or Call. I saw him as a sort of Morgan Freeman figure. Wise old guy, with the wrong skin color for his times.</p>
<p>Just finished … oh my goodness. I’ll be back tomorrow to read all your posts, but all I can say right now is oh my goodness. </p>
<p>Also – thank you to the CC Book Club for this one. I never would have read it otherwise, and that would have been my loss. </p>
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<p>Do you think he’s still “malleable” enough? Despite the fact that he’s only 24, July seems firmly set in his ways. “It irritated [Elmira] that July came home and did exactly the same things day after day” and “Dee could talk all week and never say the same thing twice, whereas it seemed to her July had never said anything different since they’d married” (p. 221). </p>
<p>That’s not to say I don’t like July. He has many fine qualities: stoicism, patience, faithfulness, tenacity. I think he was a good sheriff. He certainly was a cool customer when he overcame and arrested the two outlaws who were harassing Roscoe. But he seems like a fish out of water in Ogallala.</p>
<p>I hope Clara doesn’t marry July. While I like him well enough when he’s being helpful, and agree with his fine qualities–especially his tenacity (!), I think Clara is way out of his league in the sensitivity department. </p>
<p>He’s never going to be the life of the party, but I think he might learn to say the things Clara wanted to hear.</p>
<p>This gives me hope:
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<p>and a little later, this which made me laugh:
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<p>I feel that because Clara, is able to say what she wants from him, which I don’t think she did with her first one, that there’s a real chance that he can figure it out. At any rate he’s got a year to figure it out. </p>
<p>I don’t think Elmira’s opinion of July, is important. Yes, he’s a contrast to Dee, but she never appreciated July’s good qualities. Clara does. She may or may not think they are enough in a year, but I think that moment when she hugged him shows that she is fond of him.</p>
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<p>I think Clara will base any decision she makes about July on what she thinks will be best for Martin. Clara is nothing if not practical. She already senses July’s strengths and weaknesses as a potential husband. Can he become the man she’d like to marry? Probably not. Can he become a man she can marry? Maybe. Not only would he work the ranch but he is the boy’s father. She may place importance on that. (And her girls are already attached to him.) And I agree with all three posters ^^^:</p>
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<p>I am running out the door (it’s morning in Australia!) but with all this talk of Clara and July - it might have been a whole other story if he’d licked that cake batter off her finger with some passion instead of his usual bewilderment…:)</p>
<p>^^^ Good point 
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<p>I finished the book earlier tonight and just finished reading all the discussion posts. I liked the book and should have started earlier, so I could have enjoyed it more rather than rushing to get it done. </p>
<p>I was disappointed that Call didn’t claim Newt as his son. He did in action, but not in words. Newt wanted the words. I think he would have been happy and proud to be Call’s son. Call didn’t see that. </p>
<p>Call seemed to have a thing about names. He didn’t know Deets’ first name until Gus put it on the sign. He regretted it after Deets died and ending up putting it on the grave marker. Call always referred to Newt as “the boy”. After Deets died I thought for sure Call would tell Newt he was his father and give him his name. It was sad that he didn’t. Maybe Call thought he would be less emotionally attached if he didn’t use names. That didn’t really work for him.</p>
<p>While I was reading I found myself often imagining the future. I saw a different future for Clara and July. I don’t see them ever being a couple. At least I hope not. It seemed that Dish and Clara were better suited for each other. I actually imagined something eventually starting up between July and Lori. It was the scene in the kitchen after Dish arrived that made me think this way. July and Lori were sitting back quietly watching. I just thought they might find each other in their journeys back from sorrow.</p>
<p>I had that thought, too, Caraid (about July and Lorena). He would give her the space she needed to heal without any pressure, it seems. </p>