<p>"All of these kids should be expelled from their schools. Let them work at McDonald’s IF they can get bonded. "</p>
<p>The jobs at McDonalds should be reserved for honest kids.</p>
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<p>agreed…</p>
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Once a cheater, always a cheater?</p>
<p>Or…cheating on a test in high school isn’t some ruinous crime that makes you a terrible person and ruins your life?
I think that condemning these kids to mcdonald’s is extreme. As to the jobs being “reserved,” I’m confident that there’s enough turnover to ensure that ANYONE could get a job there at some point.</p>
<p>I wonder whether some of those taking the tests for pay might be the sort of kids who had high scores themselves, but not very good grades (explaining why they are not at super-selective schools).</p>
<p>“Or…cheating on a test in high school isn’t some ruinous crime that makes you a terrible person and ruins your life?”</p>
<p>Cheating on a test in high school does not make one a “terrible person” and ruin one’s life, but a “terrible person” who is on the path for a “ruined life” (absent intervening change of ways) may cheat on a high school test.</p>
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Surveys have shown that a large percentage of students have cheated at one time or another on tests, so perhaps to your generation it is not a big deal. I doubt the SAT cheating was a one-time cheating action, though. Cheating at that level was probably preceded by other cheating actions, and for those who weren’t caught (and maybe for some of those who were?), simply a prelude to yet more cheating.</p>
<p>I think what bothers me most about this cheating is the kids who lost their chance to go to school because the cheaters got in - every penny in merit aid that went to the cheaters that another student didn’t get. Jail - no jail, I can’t see that far. But any tuition paid to schools, any merit funds received, every penny of the pell grants should be paid by the cheating students/parents into the student financial aid funds of the school they were accepted in.</p>
<p>Look, I think kids make mistakes. </p>
<p>But, the level of premeditation and planning involved in finding and paying for someone to take your SAT’s is at such a fundamentally different level than the kid who panics over some test or paper in a class and impulsively does something stupid. A panic reaction in the face of something is a heck of a lot different, from the perspective of character, in my opinion, than something like this.</p>
<p>Also, those scores I’ve just heard about are atrocious. In addition to making a really bad choice, these kids were completely ripped off.</p>
<p>Cheating and getting away with it: more likely to do it again
Cheating and getting caught and no consequences: you tell me now…</p>
<p>I m sick of this. Get with the program: colleges, CB and ETS.
Or get rid of the standardized tests. The risk of losing their precious business might force them to make much needed changes.</p>
<p>The scores need to be valid if they are to be used.
And INTEGRITY should be a component of holistic admissions,
GAAAH</p>
<p>Look- we all make mistakes and bad decisions. We need to LEARN from them (NOT to repeat), and must show remorse and respect, especially for the victims, the others students taking the tests, the teachers who labor to educate, for example…
What would be a good way for the SAT cheaters to make amends and atone, even feel a little shame???</p>
<p>Teaching young people to live an honest and self-examined life needs to be taken much more seriously. The price of such an effort cannot be measured, and the costs of ignoring it are immeasurable and tragic.
So I say the Adults also need to take responsibility here.</p>
<p>I also agree that kids make mistakes, but hiring somebody to take your SAT for you is so far beyond being a “mistake” that it boggles my mind. Heck, I’m not even comfortable calling it a “bad decision.” It’s a sin, if I dare use such a word.</p>
<p>Wow; this thread is still ongoing? Cheating on tests is not a new idea. It’s been going on for a loooooong time. These kids just happened to get caught.</p>
<p>CB is the only one that has any authority to stop it. But not much authority. Few high school students have state-issued IDs. Fewer still in California and other border states which have a high ‘immigrant’ population; and such students comprise a good portion of the test takers. </p>
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<p>The REAL problem, IMO, is that there are ZERO consequences for students who do cheat. At worst, CB cancels their score and offers a free retake.</p>
<p>The question how much security can CB impose on the test-takers? Finger-prints? Retina-scans? At what cost? Without “incontrovertible proof”, CB is in a difficult position.</p>
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<li>Not all high schools even offer the test, so teachers have no way of ‘knowing’ the kids. Heck, not one HS in our district offers it. (I guess the teachers aren’t interested in the extra proctor pay.)</li>
<li>Undocumenteds, by definition, do not have state-issued IDs.</li>
<li>Many Frosh-Sophs don’t have either.</li>
<li>While cheating is illegal, unethical and immoral, it is generally not grounds for ANY type of school-sanction because it is not a school-related function. CB is a private Corporation that rents rooms from school sites to issue its own, private test.</li>
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<p>Please don’t read my comments into condoning the cheating. I do not. Just point out that it has been going on for a long time. Cheating is inherent in the system. Instead of outrage, I’d like to see a list of cost-effective suggestions to “fix” the system.</p>
<p>What’s wrong with thumbprints? That would be easy to do, and they could be checked only if there is a question raised about identity.</p>
<p>bluebayou, the thread was restarted because more have been accused and because the test takers are being arrested for fraud and face up to four years in prison, the test avoiders are being charged as juveniles, and their names have not been released.</p>
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<p>If they aren’t gonna be checked regularly, what’s the point? Plus, what is the cost to take them? Who will administer the print? A proctor? How much time do we need to add to the testing day to take prints? Who pays for it? Who pays for the storage? Who pays for the security? Who will address the libertarians (on the right) and those on the left who don’t want a private corporation holding thier kids’ finger prints? Are you really suggesting that kids HAVE to be finger-printed so they can take a test and be admitted to college?</p>
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<p>Exactly my point. No (real) penalty for the high schoolers. If this wasn’t a large ‘ring’ there would be no such news – nada. Cheating occurs at every CB test. (Heck, cheating occurs on nearly every high school test.) These kids were just unfortunate (or stupid, or both) and got caught.</p>
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<p>An awful “shoot the messenger” policy that encourages proctors and other students to cover up the cheating instead of reporting it.</p>
<p>Imagine what people would think if someone witnessed a crime, reported it to the police, and got thrown in jail for that. (Of course, that may be the case in places with highly corrupt police in the pay of the suspect.)</p>
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<p>Not relevant, ucb. If someone reports a possible crime to the police, the police investigate, with police powers, including obtaining a warrant. If a proctor, who could be a HS janitor or security guard, reports a what they think is a cheating tester to CB, it is impossible for CB to investigate.</p>
<p>Look at it another way: if you and I are sitting next to each other during a test, and you report me for cheating off of you, I could easily respond that ‘no you were cheating off of me.’ CB’s only option is to cancel both tests.</p>
<p>As we well know from the Sandusky thread, reporting a crime can have serious impact on the life of the person who reports it, and there can be a big incentive not to report. Having your own test cancelled is a pretty strong disincentive.</p>
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<p>I totally agree, particularly given the time constraints. For seniors, fall testing is there last chance to improve their scores.</p>
<p>But again, what is the solution in a he said-he said complaint of cheating? How can CB possibly know that I was cheating off of ucb and not the other way around?</p>
<p>[The</a> Shadow Scholar](<a href=“The Shadow Scholar”>The Shadow Scholar).
This ought to shed some light on how rampant cheating has become, and how it’s possible for rich, mediocre students to succeed in top colleges.</p>