This is what you wrote in the original post on 12/9. Since then it has become the schools that is best for your daughter. Sight unseen (and winter weather untried).
I think it is reasonable that people aren’t sure St O will work out or that the commitment might not be as strong as you feel it is after only 30 days. It might work out perfectly, but you’ve said yourself that it is a 17 year old making these decisions so instant love might not last.
I feel the need to respond to @proudNVdad I can shop offers before the ED decision is made and FA package offered per StO ED agreement. It was discussed with StO before signing the ED agreement and it is worded as such in the agreement itself.
But if she were lucky enough to get accepted it’s unlikely she would get a better aid package.
And a few thousand dollars to us makes a HUGE difference.
Someone else mentioned something about me racing or rushing FA packages?? lol When did I become so powerful that I can change when a FA package comes out?
I am surprised that I will hear from Earlham with their package this quickly, it should be tomorrow.
I still don’t have a final package from most of the schools she was accepted to but I do have the NPC.
I have official packages from 2 schoools, I think…And heck yeah, we opened up discussion on how to get closer to closing the gap.
I’m allowed to do this, it’s not unethical. No matter what your financial position in life you can try to negotiate a better price, if you don’t, that’s on you.
We are not allowed to do it AFTER she gets an “affordable” FA package from StO IF she is accepted.
I understand the language of the agreement that I signed and her counselor signed and she signed.
Playing devil’s advocate once again,but the OP and her daughter can do whatever they chose to do even if many here don’t agree with it.
Also, imo, if she learns on Friday that Earlham is not expecting her D to take out loans then she might want to change St.O’s ED to RD ( if that’s what they want to do). Again, this family can technically do whatever they want. Remember, the “only thing we have to do in life is pay taxes and die”.
@Grinnellhopeful , I’m sorry there seems to be some underlying hostility here. You’ve made it clear that everything you are doing is after having a transparent conversation with StO. I also think you are dealing with the cards you’ve been dealt and your knowledge about the process has evolved considerably. I think it’s a good outlet for you to come here and blow off steam and get feedback on the what-ifs but remember that no one here knows the shoes you walk in. I do think though that everyone is hoping for the best for your daughter. No school is perfect. No matter what, she will end up at a school that’s a better fit than your state U with less debt and you’ve also opened up this road for others at her high school who follow in her footsteps.
@citymama9 I threw the loan thing into the mix yesterday when Homerdog said the school determines what is affordable. I have absolutely no reason to believe that she will get a package that doesn’t include loans. I just used it as an example of a very hypothetical conversation that I was baffled by. I truly don’t know why people kept bringing it up.
Everyone knows we submitted a few more applications after StO, everyone knows there were applications pending before StO. Her AO reassured my D she could and should apply to more schools.
I just want to make sure that I’m not putting out there that the school is going to offer a package without loans. I was simply making a point that if one came in (not happening) before the unknown acceptance to StO, we can consider it and can consider it. It the after part that is off limits. Because for us there is a difference if there was a chance she got a package without loans or less loans…for example, remember me fretting about her personal expenses, medication, etc. if she had a package with less loans or no loans, she could borrow a little to help with some of things.
But as stated many times that was so wildly hypothetical, and unlikely…it was just used to illustrate my point about affordability.
This is the wording that makes a lot of us crazy. You can window shop. But you can’t scramble to find a better offer, then tell St. O their offer is unaffordable BECAUSE you found a better offer. “Unaffordable” is in the realm of your pocketbook It is completely irrelevant what other schools have offered. I do not care how low your income is or how much trauma there has been. You are not above the rules. And those really are the rules.
@citymama9 - Yes, ultimately, OP and D can do whatever they chose to do, and I agree that if “Earlham is not expecting her D to take out loans then she might want to change St.O’s ED to RD.” The problem lies in the fact that we are given to understand that OP’s D has no intention to change St.O’s ED to RD, regardless of whether what Earlham offers.
What many on this thread – including me – appear frustrated by are statements like:
“No matter what your financial position in life you can try to negotiate a better price, if you don’t, that’s on you.”
The bottom line is this: The spirit of ED is such that if StO meets the NPC, OP’s D is obligated to go there, regardless of whether or not another school has her given a better offer.
It’s disingenuous to “try to negotiate a better price” when a schools says that it doesn’t “match” other schools’ offers. If OP wants to compare offers and “try to negotiate a better price,” she should change to RD. She does not want to do so.
OP’s refusal to make a simple declarative statement such as that suggested by @sue22:
“If my daughter is accepted to St. Olaf with an offer that matches the NPC I will insist she honor the ED agreement regardless of offers from other schools.”
and OP’s doing things like putting quotation marks around the word “affordable,” as in “AFTER she gets an “affordable” FA package from StO” has meant that I, for one, am not convinced of her sincerity in adhering to the rules of the Early Decision program. But, at the end of the day, that’s on them.
OP,
Yes, ignore the negativity (in defense, I do not think that that was anyone’s intent), and I also apologize if I have added to the ED discussion even after suggesting that it stop. I have tried to remind people that you and St. Olaf have discussed these finer points of ED. Also, in the quote I gave in an earlier post, 90% of ED applicants who also applied for financial aid enrolled at St. Olaf. Of course, this means that 10% did not. I highly doubt that this was St. Olaf’s way of snarkily saying, “Look at those 10% of oath breakers!” No, these were most likely special case scenarios, such as yours. Schools are very careful how they word ED agreements, understanding that the word “affordable” is much different for a full-pay family vs. a family from a lower income. ED is also NOT tied to the net price calculator (which is only an estimate). If this were the case, the ED agreement would specifically state that ED applicants must adhere to the NPC figure.
Trauma has absolutely nothing to do with affordability. I never insinuated that it did. And I probably use the wrong language which is why I need to stop posting. I have been assured from the school that I can try to negotiate the best financial aid packages for my daughter. Before the acceptance if it comes and then the FA package arrives.
And I am talking about my pocketbook, my checking account. I don’t know why you felt the need to throw trauma into it.
But all of this is very moot because it’s unlikely that I would get a better package anywhere. Maybe comparable, but probably not better.
This was all hypothetical about who determines what affordable and who doesn’t. And I did my due diligence and confirmed that I was not in violation of the ED agreement. I don’t have a financial package in hand to review with my daughter, and she doesn’t have a letter of acceptance. It’s that simple.
It’s a little tough to argue that a school is not affordable when the out of pocket contribution is less than $300.
It is perfectly valid to shop for the best backup offer for the possibility that the ED result is something other than admission with the FA predicted by the NPC.
However, there is no real urgency for that, since the potential decision in case of a negative ED result can wait until May 1, and may depend on information that is only available as late as April 1.
The rapid-fire blizzard of posts in this thread may make it easy to miss posts, but http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/21118797/#Comment_21118797 (#784, replying to #783) says:
@Grinnellhopeful, as you have tried to make clear numerous times, you have discussed everything with the St. Olaf AO - I think you have done everything that you could do to ensure that you have a complete picture of the process and the expectations. Now its a wait until 2/1 to see if your DD’s St. Olaf ED II acceptance happens.
As an aside, Forbes ranks St. Olaf as the #13 ranked school in the Midwest - Grinnell is ranked #8 and Earlham is #20. https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinesimon/2017/08/02/top-25-colleges-in-the-midwest-2017/2/#6a133d3e5664
Best wishes!
Plus about $7700 in loans and work study.
I suspect it’s hard to argue that if you haven’t been in a position of, say, not being able to afford to visit any colleges.
@Sue22 I was specifically referring to the unlikely scenario that her loan amount might be reduced. If her loan amount or reduced she could maybe borrow a little more to help with some of those other expenses. I’m not gonna say it again it was hypothetical. And I do believe if she got into St. Olaf they will do everything they can to make it affordable. When I learned yesterday the deposit has been lowered to $150 for students that receive a Pell Grant, that was incredibly reassuring. It’s those little things that made the decision to go ED easy. They are very committed to affordability and they’re serious about that. So when I say it’s unlikely that there would be a better package for her I mean, it’s unlikely. But I have to assume and so does she that she will not get accepted.
As for any loans, lots of college kids take that $5500 annual loan and are perfectly able to pay it back. Like I said, we will have our kids take it even though we can afford full price because we think it’s important for them to have some skin in the game. @Grinnellhopeful’s daughter taking these loans is part of a reasonable package. College graduates can handle that much debt. To want a private college education with no loans seems unrealistic.
@homerdog How many times did I state it was a unlikely hypothetical?
But if her loan amount was a little less she could maybe borrow a little more to help with some of the personal expenses that I’m concerned about. I say this again fully aware that it’s very unlikely that she would have to borrow less and almost unheard of that she would not have to borrow anything.
Never once did I say she shouldn’t have to take out any loans. But if her loan amount were all little reduced that would give her some wiggle room for some of the expenses that I’m not in a position right now to take care of. Some of expenses that keep me up all night, worrying about.
So, loans come into affordability if she were given a loan package that was less money before the decision came through.
No loans may be unlikely to happen, but this is a family that is going to lose child support for this student, support that covers a necessary medication. If the full $5500 isn’t part of the package, it could be borrowed to help cover those expenses. There is a reason colleges that can afford to do not put loans in high-need FA packages.
The “we can afford full price but we want our kids to have skin in the game” comments strike me as irrelevant to OP’s situation.
@Chembiodad Thank you for that info. She would be in good shape at either of the schools and that is really lovely position to be in. Vastly different than a month ago.
At this point…it is all conjecture. The OP’s child does not have a complete financial aid packge from Earlham, and does not have an acceptance or financial aid package from St. Olaf’s.
At this point…it’s a wait and see. Patiently.
But when the school keeps changing the price, that is hard to do. This is OP’s first child in college (that we know of). At this time in the application process, I had no idea that the tuition could increase $2000 before she started school in Aug. I was making decisions based on the publish tuition price, the amount of aid we were picking up off the NPC, and a lot of prayer. Honestly, we almost had to pull out in June when that tuition increase happened and the merit aid only went up $500. That was $1500 extra I needed to suddenly pick off the money tree.
When it is your first child going through the process you are just trying to find the money to make one school work. No money from a NCP, no rich grandparent that can cover the gap. Your choices are very limited.
StO knows she needs a full COA offer. StO knows she hasn’t visited the school. If only 90% of St.O ED applicants take the spot offered, St.O must also know that its offers are not good enough 10% of the time.