All I was trying to say is that the OP’s daughter can take these loans like so many other kids and pay them off after graduation. At that point, she will have a degree and hopefully be gainfully employed. I didn’t understand that she could take the loans and use some of that money for anything other than tuition. If that’s the case, then I understand that it would be best case scenario if she could use some of it for living expenses, a computer, etc. I didn’t know the loans worked like that. I thought they were limited to paying for tuition directly to the school. My bad if I didn’t understand.
@homerdog Thank you. I must not be doing the best job articulating everything. Just like I can’t always understand things I haven’t experienced, you can’t understand what you might not have experienced. I’ve always believed there was a disconnect in my communication with you.
You just nailed the point I was clearly doing a poor job of expressing.
This is progress!
@twoinanddone I have a son who is almost 25, he attended our state flagship school and I have a ton of parent plus loan debt that I can’t pay at that moment. I have experience with state schools and I understand federal grants and loans, and I know I’m in the worst financial position I’ve ever been in, right now.
What I didn’t know back in November was anything about the LACs, the common app, proper preparation for this path, which is going to be significantly less than our state school. Our counselors couldn’t guide us because that’s not what they do, they direct kids to state school and CC.
I have learned so much thanks to everyone here. I’ll be better prepared with my youngest.
For what it’s worth, I will not remark anymore on ED after this comment, either in general or in reference to OP. It is clear that the OP understands (and pages ago she made clear that she understands) the following:
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She will honor the St. Olaf ED decision if her daughter is admitted.
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She understands that loans will almost certainly be included in the St. Olaf offer.
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She understands that is highly unlikely that Earlham (or Knox, or Beloit, or Coe) will offer a FA package with no loans, but if the highly unlikely does happen, St. Olaf is aware of this and that it may constitute an examination of “affordable” re: the St. Olaf ED agreement.
Thus, I am moving on and am wishing the best to the OP and her daughter.
I’m surprised at the inexperience of your GCs. Your kid goes to a school with IB, right? It isn’t a small rural school, I assume. They really haven’t ever had experience with the Common App? No one is applying to Wash U, for example?
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@intparent our school doesn’t use Naviance (?) I can’t say for certain if anybody has attended Wash U. However, I can say for certain our GC had NEVER seen the common app, although he’s gotten pretty good at it. The AO from Grinnell had to call to walk him through more than once.
Our IB program is very very small, 6 kids. There was some question of we would still have it next year. But it looks like we will, which is awesome!
No, I’m not rural, my D18 has 312 students in her class. I believe our overall enrollment hovers around 1400, but don’t quote me.
My son, my nieces, my nephews, all went to the school (Son later transferred to an international catholic boarding school, things weren’t always this tough), and most of those kids went to our flagship school or CC. And these were also some of the brightest kids in their era there.
Obviously I can’t speak to every student that’s ever attended, it’s still a rather big school, and I don’t know everyone. But my nieces nephews are in their 30s so I’ve had kids in the school district and in the schools for many years. And the education is amazing. We have some of the best educators anyone could ask for. Our guidance counselor is amazing, he just wasn’t familiar with this process.
We have a college counselor, specifically but I believe she has some association with KSU. That is the route the kids are directed to take, in my experience.
I pass along info to our GC and even direct AOs to our school, in hopes my D’s experience will change the course for some other kids.
My D did not get a terrible education, she got a great education!
ETA: I cannot stress enough how amazing our educators are. Our elementary school, and then middle school, feed into our high school. My kids have been with these educators for over 20 years now. My son had a gifted IEP, that was a bit challenging…but I can credit every single educator that is had everyone of my children for their success thus far. When I was failing, they still pushed my kids while remaining empathetic. My D is an excellent student who still did very well on the ACT for a kid with absolutely no test prep, she had a good education. It’s 7 o’clock and she still at the library after getting to school before 7 AM this morning. They also helped instill that drive for excellence, and commitment.
I cannot tell you how grateful I am for the educators that have been in my life and my children’s lives for the last 20 years. At one time we were ranked one of the top 10 school districts in the country. Without getting too political, our district got hit really hard by block grants. Last year we weren’t even sure if school was going to start because the issue was in the hands of the Kansas Supreme Court. So these people work tirelessly, with ridiculous class sizes, and not a lot of money. Program cuts, etc.
These are amazing people. We’ve been really lucky. Although it would be nice to see a better outcome for some of these really bright kids who think that they have to borrow $10,000 -15000 in personal loans to attend state school after merit aid and Pell grants.
Getting certified to be an IB school is a ton of work (enough so that many schools abandon the program), and it is a quality, demanding program. It is amazing that a school that was so expansive in its educational vision and then so committed to executing it has never had a kid who used the common app before. Especially because there are lots of schools that like that college prep. Sounds like the GC steers everyone to the state schools. … maybe the future will be different!
One final post on my D and her ED commitment it will quickly clear up any speculation and illustrate that her thoughts are independent of my own:
She had a meeting with her GC today where he was reassuring and encouraging her to visit the schools where she has been accepted and are offering to fly her in. And she had several days built into her senior year that she could miss and it would be excused for this type of situation. Did I mention she never misses school? She will deny she’s sick and go to school…frustrating.
She was adamant with him that she was not going to do that UNTIL such time that she was rejected or deferred from St. Olaf. Several days ago her character was called into question because I couldn’t get her to bend to my will (paraphrasing). This conversation with her GC is the perfect example of her integrity. It’s also a point of frustration with me because I don’t want her to be devastated and without a solid back up plan if she is not chosen.
If you go back and look at my posts I have stated many times that I hadn’t discussed any of this with my D. But her GC did today and she was absolute in her decision. What I’m understanding is that she doesn’t want to discuss her other options until she has an answer in approximately 2 weeks because if the answer is positive, there are no other options.
Straight from the horse’s mouth…FWIW
I’m confused. Are you the OP? Do you have two IDs? And “integrity” and “stubbornness” aren’t the same thing. She should feel free to take trips to other schools if they are offered until the ED situation is settled. BUT… she does have until May 1 to decide about all the other schools if St Olaf doesn’t happen. I personally think there is a lot to attending accepted student days (which aren’t usually until April) at top choices if the visits are paid for. Schools really make an effort to give a student a full taste with an overnight stay of the campus and what it has to offer. Usually if the schools offer to pay for the trip, it doesn’t have to be taken right away – you can wait a month or so to schedule it. I don’t suggest visiting while the schools are on spring break, so that is something to watch for.
@intparent her username was changed. See first post.
@intparent stubborn in what she believes is the right thing to do, Remember when she didn’t want to submit any applications except for 1? I think she’s come a long way, But she was clear we weren’t discussing the other options at all until she received her decision and if it wasn’t favorable. I got a top 3 if rejected from her, reluctantly…but she doesn’t want to dwell there.
Relax. There is no rush between now and February 1 (assuming that is the expected date of notification from St. Olaf).
If St. Olaf admits with FA matching the NPC, she matriculates there and is done.
If St. Olaf gives something else, she has plenty of time until May 1 to decide (and may not have full information on all other colleges until April 1).
@ucbalumnus One school in particular has been in contact every day either by email or phone and they were offering an incentive if she visited in January. An incentive that is somewhat significant. So there was some pressure from me and her GC to take that visit. The visit at Earlham is in February…
Well…if then other school is the number one choice…they may want to also see the expressed interest a visit will,show…before rendering an ED 2 decision.
I’d be making travel plans if that is the case!
No school where someone applied RD should be offering an incentive if a prospective student visits prior to a certain date, unless its a need to visit prior to the May 1st deposit date - if its a pre-planned fly-in program that’s different, otherwise its bad form.
Is that school a high choice among the non-St.-Olaf choices, for the scenario where the St. Olaf result is not admission with expected FA? Also, is that school likely for both admission and sufficient FA?
Is it correct that, contingent on admission and sufficient FA, her current rank order is:
- St. Olaf
- Earlham
- ??? etc.
If at all possible, please get her to visit St. O before they send her a decision. Once they accept her she can’t back out after seeing the campus. Well, of course she can do what she wants, but ideally it would be better to see the campus ASAP. Anyway, you can take a little time and drive to the school?
@Chembiodad Most of her schools were Non binding EA, a few were rolling admissions. She just got a call from another LAC about 30 min ago and they told her over the phone she was accepted and awarded the highest scholarship. There were a few more added right before the deadline that I thought might meet full need or come close. I assure the incentive is real and worth 20,000 over 4 years. That school’s director of admissions called me today to talk numbers. It felt like I was negotiating to buy a car. I don’t want to dismiss it because I am VERY concerned that A) She won’t get into StO B) We don’t have the FA package yet from Earlham and I can’t be sure they won’t leave a gap until I see it im writing.
@ucbalumnus She has been accepted to all of her most likely top choices if FA works out, already. Except StO.
The only school she has been rejected from was Grinnell.
I won’t speak to the #3 on the list because it could quickly fall down the list if the gap is 9000 or more and 9000 is way more than she is comfortable borrowing. She has gotten quite comfortable in the max 5500 loan number on StO’s NPC.
We don’t have many choices that fit and might be financially feasible, I mean literally there are not a lot of schools that meet her criteria and there is a shot of a good FA package. I’ve been pleasantly surprised that some of the others that aren’t the top 2 really want to make it work for her. I think amoung a certain “tier” for lack of a better word, of private LACs, she is a student they desire despite our limited or non existent resources. But the ones I’m referring to may not give her the rigor she wants…maybe I’m wrong? Maybe she would like it once she visited?
I’m just terrified of the possibility that StO (not accepted) or Earlham (financially) and she’ll just decide to call it quits and we go back to the discussion of staying home and going to a Commuter State School…It’s not going to give her what she needs. She’ll get a degree but what about grad school placement, research opportunities, etc.
Anyway, that falls back on me and what I wasn’t able to do for her before and can’t do now.
Maybe you are starting to see why I was working hard to get the best FA packages lined up while she waited for a decision…there is no money in our household to fill the space after the 5500 loan amount and I can’t do payment plans of a couple hundred a month, it’s just not there…I wish I could but if I committed to something like that and missed a payment…then what?
@citymama9 I really really wish I could.
@thumper1 It’s not but maybe it should be. It has a good reputation…I just don’t know.
Many schools, universities and LAC’s, that are outside the USNWR top-75-100 are struggling big time as enrollment drops, but their fixed costs don’t.
Back in the 1980’s and 1990’s, there were lots of well paid middle-class parents that funded education at these schools - those parents are vanishing.
I hate to believe its the case, but its possible that they are hoping to fill a seat by receiving the Federal Pell Grant $5800 and then have the student borrow another $5500 - yes for many schools its $11k/year that they couldn’t pick up otherwise and operating costs are fixed unless they shrink.
Ideally visit St. Olaf before 2/10, or whenever they need a decison regarding FA, and if St Olaf doesn’t happen all of the other Rolling or RD schools, if they are reputable, should stand behind their FA packages - none should be shared only upon a decision to attend or have a fuse on them that is outside of May 1st. IMHO.