Yes, I meant private lessons at the festival. The fall competition is kind of a more important one (statewide) and she needs to have plenty of prep time so important to know if she can count on those weeks for prep.
To date she’s done regional and one international that came to our area. The regionals have been great. I’m not sure what to think about the international. Selection process was odd as were the chosen winners. Some choices were obvious, others were head scratchers. But it does seem like saving the stress of competition should be spent when it counts. Does it really count at this level? I’m not sure what to think.
Does anyone know how competitions rank on a music school’s application? Are they important? Worth it? Important to do lots? Just win a few every year and you’re good?
I’ve followed this conversation a bit. I think others can respond better to anything specific.
Still, in my experience (voice), competitions were good for the “experience”…the prep, the pressure, the protocol. You can also see some of the competition to gauge where you are at. That results…meh…you just never know how different judges respond. If you never do well…that could be an issue. But if you are getting some decent feedback in general, that is probably good enough as far as results are concerned. Others may differ in their opinion on this for instrumentalists.
For college, the audition is KING. If you have an amazing audition and a skinny competition history, I don’t think that it would matter much at all.
I know that it can feel important to build up an impressive resume and hit all the important events/competition/summer programs. But don’t forget that she needs to get to the starting line (college auditions) feeling positive and strong (and not burned out).
I do think that some of the comments on here (including mine) are trying to assure that she doesn’t experience burn out. That can happen so you need her to “train” carefully and get rest and have fun too. One competition will not matter that much…
I do think that you probably know this…just adding my 2 cents.
If you are going to a festival where practicing is the main component, they should be able to study whatever repertoire they show up with. To be honest, summer teachers rarely assign repertoire, though they may give you some technique stuff. Usually, you bring in what you want to work on and they help you with it.
As for competitions, they can be important, but you need to have balance. I have seen kids do way too many competitions and that has distracted them from learning repertoire and becoming well-rounded. This is mostly because competitions for precollege students are usually concerto competitions. If you are singularly focused on (usually Romantic) concertos, you are not learning all the important stuff you need to be well-rounded. There are kids in our precollege program who do 20 competitions a year. This is not healthy in my opinion, though they do get their names out there and get to play with orchestra a lot.
My son did 3-4 competitions a year from age 13-17. In the early years, these were local/state. In his junior year he switched to only doing national/international competitions. He did none his senior year to focus on college auditions. This was more than enough.
As for college apps, audition is number one. For top conservatories, having some competition experience is expected – and most of the top kids are “known” to these conservatories already in part because of summer festival participation and competition wins. But the amount varies widely from kids like my son who only did a small number to kids who have done a gazillion.
Whatever you do, avoid the pay-for-play competitions where you basically pay to win and play in Carnegie Hall and other such places.
I will add that prioritizing festivals, programs and competitions varies somewhat by instrument. Just a generalization, but strings and piano tend to focus more on solo competitions and at an earlier age. Winds/brass tend to gravitate towards opportunities to play with high level large ensembles to gain experience with performing orchestral repertoire.
Competitions are a really great way to gain experience with performing. As are auditions and participation in honor groups or NYO, YoungArts. My son organized his opportunities with his private teacher, of course with parents involved in the financial aspect.
Above all, the experiences should be motivating, provide a growth opportunity and have some aspect of fun!
@oretargent there has been a good discussion on competitions. Other parents suggest they are helpful but should be carefully chosen. Competitions may affect personal development or, in my view, even artistic development if they are the exclusive focus. But clearly a young person who wants a top solo career needs to do some. I think we all expressed concern on burnout so stress is another concern, especially for a young person in school. It could be nice if he could attend a festival without worrying about a competition.
My dancer avoided competitions in favor of training, and it worked out well. Composers may need to do competitions but getting into festivals is enough: my music kid did not do competitions until post grad level, just festivals. I am used to music as a collaborative effort, so a focus on winning is a little alien for me. I think you can rely on the advice of parents whose kids are aiming for solo careers.
My son felt that completions in his instrument were not helpful. Some of the things that were being judged were not helpful to him and for his instrument there is a small number of kids who won them all. They can be quite expensive and time consuming. If your daughter enjoys them and is successful, great. But not sure it adds anything to the college application process.
Thank you, this is very helpful. Tell me about the pay-to-play in NYC? Her previous teacher wanted her to do one and I thought it seemed fishy. What is it about them you don’t recommend?
Thank you, I have been wondering this as well! We’re trying to do them so that they fit into the flow of how she is learning new rep. Based on the input here, probably will not be changing that to prioritize competitions.
There is no value to them other than a line on your resume. And you have to pay to enter, pay to travel there, pay to perform, pay for the accompanist, and in many cases pay by the minute to play more than the <5 minutes they give you. Basically, you are just going in with 20 other families to rent Carnegie Hall, which anybody can do. Rarely do you even get comments or a small monetary award. During the pandemic, these have multiplied as money-makers. Also avoid any one that does multiple competitions a year with 20 different age/instrument categories.
Whenever looking at a competition, the first thing you should ask is what your child will get out of the competition. If the answer is “a line on her resume” then skip it.
Also, conservatories know exactly which competitions are valuable and which are not. It’s fine to do some local competitions that are not well-known for practice in preparing and performing, but even these should have SOME value, like getting comments from decent judges or getting to perform with orchestra. Of course, the preparation is always valuable, but IMO it needs to be more than that.
They looked sketchy to me. And yeah, I’ve seen the others you describe (all age levels, multi instrument) and thought those looked a little iffy too. I am saying that based on appearance but can you tell me exactly what it is that is bad? Quality of judging? Level of those competing? Also, what would you consider to be a decent judge and how can one find out who is judging a competition so that you can decide whether to participate? My daughter has always gotten written feedback a lot of which has been very helpful (some not so much, lol.)
You make a very good point, compmom! I am really on the fence about them. Her previous teacher was really into them. It’s interesting that the teacher she has now seems much less concerned with them and his level of instruction is significantly better than the previous teacher’s.
The pay-for-play competitions are just a waste of time and money. If you are a millionaire and can afford them and already have the pieces prepared and recorded, then fine. But for everybody else, don’t waste your money.
Most quality competitions release the names of the judging panel. What we look for is teachers who are well regarded (from conservatories or major universities) and players who are at least in a symphony or a soloist. If your kid is a violinist and the panel is a freelance cellist, a trombone player, and a pianist from the community college, you aren’t likely to get many helpful comments.
Sometimes I read these threads and wonder how my kids got into music school–haha;). I have two who attended IU Jacobs–Voice Performance and Jazz Guitar Performance–and a third who was just accepted there–also Voice Performance–but is still making her final college decision. They didn’t do any big competitions or festivals. They simply had 2 things–an absolute passion for their arts (would rather be doing those things than just about anything else) and private teachers who were fantastic pedagogues.
Don’t get me wrong. They did all the “music things” they could get their hands on locally. My vocalists did school and community theater musicals, school and community choirs, regional/state school music association contests, regional NATS competitions, and camps and classes through the community arts outreach program at the state university in our town. My guitarist gigged with numerous bands and pit orchestras locally and loved the “rock band” camp offerings at our local university. All 3 were blessed with great private teachers who were connected to our smallish local state university. Other than that they were just typical high school kids doing homework and hanging with friends. No one in our family wanted to spend the time or money that a lot of these competitions and festivals require.
And as far as consultants, we didn’t even know those existed until my oldest was asked who hers was by another parent at an audition. When she said she did all her applications, pre screening videos, audition scheduling herself he just about fell out of his chair.
I don’t intend this to sound braggy by any means–my kids aren’t perfect and they are not “stars” (yet–we can all dream though, right-haha???), but they (the 2 oldest) got offers from great schools, received great educations, and are out there doing the thing. I just want to give you permission not to stress too much. As long as a kid is passionate about his or her art and getting good instruction, the rest is probably just extra…
Actually @musicmomtimes3 in my book your kids did a lot, and they had local resources that many kids don’t have, including a university and excellent teachers. And they did participate in competitions (regional/state).
I have great admiration for the lengths many parents on this forum go to help their musician kids develop, and the many hours these kids put in to practice, performance, theory and so on. I personally am not a fan of competitions but am learning from other posters about some that are appropriate. Summer camps and festivals are wonderful and helpful experiences.
Music is a hard path for young people because of the need to balance musical and personal development. Not sure how many serious music kids are “typical high school kids” in their use of time. Most avoid burnout and do fine. It’s a lot of work and discipline, which hopefully involves some hanging out as you say.
I had one along this path, but not on piano or violin (which are incredibly competitive). The reality is that acceptance into top conservatories or top schools of music is based virtually entirely on the audition, not on the applicant’s resume, but the activities that prepare them to give a fantastic audition also do look good on the resume.
If you have a good conservatory with a precollege program near you, your student should audition for it, and attend it. Auditions are usually held in May for the next year, and they’re probably open for registration now. They will have symphony and chamber groups for them there, plus potentially theory classes, ear training, etc. Your student should be with the best teacher for them in the area, who may be through that conservatory. They should audition for and participate in summer programs appropriate for their instrument and ability - BUTI, Interlochen, etc. These auditions are going on right now, or may even be over by now. There are also many music summer camp options, at various levels - they will still have openings.
If it becomes possible for them to participate in prestigious summer programs such as NYO, that would look good, too. But still, it all comes down to the audition. Unless you’re in a major city, you don’t usually have many to choose from while in high school when it comes to high level teachers on your instrument, but if you are lucky enough to be in a city with many available, of course the match between your student and the teacher is crucial.
When choosing which conservatory/school or music to apply to and attend, the teacher with whom you would be studying is the first consideration - everything else is secondary, since without the right teacher, it’s not worth going.
You can get advice about this specific to your daughter’s instrument from here, or from a teacher at your local conservatory, if you’re lucky enough to be near one. You don’t need to hire a consultant.
Thanks, appreciate this perspective! The parents at her program do not talk, nor do the kids really. I really appreciate people sharing their experiences here.
She’s already in one of those now and we are waiting to hear on the summer festivals (!)
But yeah, realizing I don’t need to hire one either. I got kind of spun up after talking to another parent at an international competition. I’m back on the ground now
