looking for some parental insight on my (ever dreaded) list

Parent Cafe
1

<p>yes, i have a list. but the more i look at it the more i have doubts.</p>

<p>stats:
female
fl resident
4.67w
4.0uw
1/400ish
i’ll have 8ish APs when i graduate
sat:
750 cr 780 math 750 writing</p>

<p>ecs:
4 year varsity tennis and captain sr year
4 year varsity swim, captain sr year
nhs-3 years
beta-3 years
anchor-4 years
very involved in youth group-mission trips
student government rep.
part time lifeguarding two summers
250+ hours volunteering for hospice+local hospital
about 100 more hours for various community service</p>

<p>what i’m looking for
-lots of fin aid (might want grad school later)
-strong science program + strong IR (right now i’m divided between the two, so a range to explore my options would be great)
-lots of involvement in athletics (good facilities, involvement in IMs, some game watching, etc.)
-not too cutthroat
-more suburban or urban than rural (but you can include all)
-close interaction w/ profs
-on-campus housing</p>

<p>Brown U
Colgate U
Colorado C
Dartmouth C
Florida SU (in state safety)
Johns Hopkins U
Pomona C
Stanford U
U Pennsylvania
U Rochester
U Virginia
Vassar C
Washington U St. L. </p>

<p>i don’t know what to take out, or add, or anything! i’m just getting frustrated and afraid that i’m shooting too high! please help!</p>

2

<p>apply to duke! you’d love it. pomona would be too small for you (freshman class of 380, even smaller than your high school). jhu is great but you might want to rethink that because of the location and lack of community atmosphere (you said you want close knit relationships).</p>

<p>anyway, don’t take me at my word…do some research.</p>

3

<p>Emory would be perfect for you. Visit - I think you’d really like it. Your stats are great, you’re not from GA, they have great sciences and international programs, their “college within a university” allows an LAC feel with the resources of a research university, and they have a bunch of sports options. </p>

<p>Another school you might want to take a look at is Davidson in NC. Especially strong in sciences, and has an amazing grad school admit rate. My D didn’t like it because it seemed too “scholar-athlete” oriented, but that would be great for you. They have a pre-freshmen program that gives you a choice of a back-packing trip or a service-oriented (like Habitat for Humanities) week. Presbyterian background, so a bit more conservative than Emory. But both schools have a pretty good mix of people.</p>

4

<p>agreed–emory is a good choice. davidson does give good fin aid but it’s pretty small and non-diverse</p>

5

<p>I’ll bite, a little.</p>

<p>I don’t think that you are “shooting too high”, exactly. You probably wouldn’t be admitted to all of the schools on your list, but you are in range for all of them, and if anything you have a lot of safeties that aren’t necessarily financial safeties. With your kind of profile, the whole reach/match/safety thing is a little complicated, because your matches are all reaches, so I wouldn’t obsess too much about that.</p>

<p>What is glaringly missing from the list is a set of schools that might give you non-need-based financial aid. You haven’t told us what your family income situation is, but your general profile looks like that of an affluent kid, so need-based aid may not meet your goals. But the vast majority of schools on your list award ONLY need-based aid, or are very competitive for merit aid for out-of-state students. On the other hand, your outline is the outline of kids who are competitive for merit aid.</p>

<p>Also, for someone who says she wants more suburban than urban or rural, your list has a lot of urban and rural schools on it. It also has schools of every shape, size, and location. You haven’t actually made many focusing decisions yet. </p>

<p>What I would do if I were you is spend some real time reading some of the many threads in the Parent’s Forum on merit aid, and do a whole 'nother list of schools you would target for that. Then do some hard thinking about whether you really want a LAC, a mid-size private research university, or a state university. You can apply to some of each, of course, by you probably shouldn’t be applying to ten of each, and it will help your focus to think about what you want.</p>

<p>If you are in the merit-aid hunt, you will probably apply to a lot of schools, but only a few of the schools that are already on your list (other than FSU). That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t apply to a school you would love but where merit aid is a long shot – you should, just not EVERY school like that – but you should be applying to more schools that will want to compete for you by discounting their cost substantially.</p>

6

<p>You said that one of your criteria is “on-campus housing.” If by this you mean that you want to live on campus for all four years, you may need to rethink some of your choices. You have several schools on your list where upperclassmen tend to live off-campus (Penn, UVa, WUSTL). Is on-campus housing for upperclassmen guaranteed at these schools for those who want it? You may want to check that out before you apply.</p>

7

<p>i had looked at davidson, but it didn’t have that much diversity as far as courses of study go.</p>

<p>JHU-i’m wary b/c it’s so cutthroat (especially for premed), so i guess i should scratch it for the same reasons i scratched UChicago. great for some, but not really what i’m looking for.</p>

<p>$$-we are NOT affluent by any means. parents have a combined income of about 60k, and we don’t own a home/any other assets to be included in financial assessment.</p>

<p>size-i don’t really want a HUGE school (UVA and FSU contradict that, and while FSU is really just an in-state safety that i put b/c i have 100% bright futures, it was UVA’s facilities that attracted me, not neccessarily anything else, which is why i should probably scratch it)
i know that i want small classes and a big range of options as far as courses of study go.</p>

<p>WUSTL and Penn were sort of last minute additions, so i was never really attatched to them anyway, i just thought WUSTL had a lot of oppourtunities in the sciences</p>

8

<p>Amherst College</p>

9

<p><strong><em>Princeton</em></strong></p>

<p>for excellent sciences and the best need-based aid.</p>

<p>And by the way, you are not shooting too high, if you are ranked #1, have been so involved in sports as well as community service, you are right up there in the range for just about any top school. You don’t want to regret not applying somewhere just because their acceptance rate is low.</p>

10

<p>

Since this is the number one criteria you list, like JHS, I’m going to concentrate there. Have you done the financial aid calculations? Don’t leave anything out. Use real numbers from last year + any changes you know have taken place. Have you used all the different calculators available on collegeboard, finaid, individual schools? Do they coincide with numbers you and your family can pay? </p>

<p>If so, what is your financial aid expectation? </p>

<p>We are dealing with a couple of things. If the FA picture is clearly doable at need-only 100% of need schools, and you are comfortable with how those schools package need aid (summer contribution, ws, average first year loan component, later year increases in loans) then it is not unreasonable to have a number of those schools on your list. But if any of those factors are iffy - it’s a very dangerous idea to be limited to those. </p>

<p>You have to have a financial safety that is also an admissions safety that you are willing to attend (and gets you where you want to go if you are career grad pro school oriented which it appears you are). Is that school FSU with your Bright Futures? If so, you are set. If not - that’s where you go first. Find THAT school as it not on your list. </p>

<p>While 100% of need schools are the most generous overall, they may NOT be the most generous to YOU. By that I mean schools who really want you but are not 100% of need sometimes sweeten the pot substantially for super high achievers, the HYP candidates (and you are one). This preferential packaging also applies to some (and IMO all) need-only schools. Specifically check out Alumni Scholars at Colgate. It is VERY helpful in the overall FA picture. </p>

<p>Your profile is very familiar to me .:wink: It is almost exactly that of my kid (you have more AP’s, her EC’s were better, other than that , “twins”.) . She was not able to fully maximize the “need” strategies you may be able to employ because of our very complicated income/asset picture.That puts your family way ahead of where we were. I want you to take advantage of that. </p>

<p>I personally think a list for a kid like you should include Vanderbilt, Emory, Davidson, Furman, Wake, UNC, and UVA in the South (Rhodes if you want 1700 kids and strong sciences , IR, and pre-med ;). Caveat : My D’s choice. LOL. ) Schools elsewhere would include Scripps (as part of their consortium with Mudd, CMC, Pitzer, Pomona), CMC (same thing), USC, WashU, UMiami, Rochester, and Boston U off the top of my head. At all you would be a great merit aid candidate, an excellent candidate for admissions, and each school might treat you quite favorably at the FA table. I have a whole great big list of smaller schools, too. </p>

<p>Oh, BTW I agree there’s not a school that’s too reachy for you. My D did very well at the top of her list. Don’t forget to put a couple of those on there, too. You already have some great need-only’s. If you have SAT Subject tests Princeton and Yale (ACT works for Yale) should be there, too. </p>

<p>Great job, kiddo. ;)</p>

11

<p>coolziller:</p>

<p>If your parents’ income is around $60k, you would qualify for a full ride need-based aid at Princeton, Harvard, Yale and Stanford (for Harvard, check out its financial aid website). And with your profile, you are in range at all four, although, as others have pointed out, all four are reaches for everybody.
Since FSU is your safety and I assume you would qualify for a full ride there, you don’t need to add additional safeties. You can include some matches from among schools that give good merit aid such as Duke.
As others have pointed out, the difference between the various schools on your list is huge. Besides the issue of size and urban/suburban, what about weather? Would you be equally happy attending Amherst (cold even for a long-time MA resident) as Pomona or Duke?</p>

12

<p>

</p>

<p>Expecting merit aid from Duke is like expecting admission from Harvard. Don’t count Duke in the merit money cateogry…look for state schools’ honor colleges for that. UNC maybe?</p>

13

<p>^^^^Expecting merit aid from Duke is like expecting admission from Harvard. </p>

<p>Nope. It’s far worse than that. :wink: Very few merit awards and even then, most are not statistically driven and as such lack any predictability .</p>

14

<p>I think you have a very good/diverse list. I think you should consider Colorado a safety school. Also, was mentioned above that Pomona would be too small for you, have to disagree. While Pomona itself is 1500 students, it is part of the Claremont Consortium so you actually have 5 colleges with about 5,000 students IMMEDIATELY adjacant to each other. Can walk to all 5, take classes at all 5, participate in most events at any of the 5.</p>

<p>Of these two schools, Colorado out of state tuition is about near Pomona’s costs but Pomona has tremendous need based aid and Colorado near zilch.</p>

<p>Wesleyan is another school you might want to consider.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

15

<p>i did the financial aid calculators,
and the expected contribution is 3-4k</p>

<p>i meant to say that i would prefer warm weather, but not necessarily “the south”, if that makes sense (a.k.a. not in redneck country, we moved to FL from MI when i was younger and i’ve never been into the SOUTHERN style)</p>

<p>FSU is my admissions/$$ safety</p>

<p>curmudgeon, are those colleges you listed ones that would be matchy-ish for me, and that i would get good $$ (like merit, not just need-based) at? and do you think i’d really be competitive for colgate’s alumni scholars? that kind of aid package would be amazing.</p>

16

<p>coolziller2- I would look at u miami honors program as well. Vanderbilt, Emory, UNC.</p>

17

<p>I’ll bite too. </p>

<p>You look GREAT on paper - nice combo of good scores, good rank, good sports, good ec’s. I think any adcom in the country would want to attract you, including HYPSM, if you’re into that.</p>

<p>One comment about smaller schools like Pomona, Amherst, Williams - if you’d rather <em>compete</em> in sports, rather than just <em>watch</em> them, then these division III schools could be a better fit (assumes you aren’t a recruited athlete).</p>

<p>I suspect you’d like the “atmosphere” at Stanford, Pomona, Amherst, Williams, Duke, Vanderbilt, UVa.</p>

<p>My D sounds similar but perhaps not as strong a candidate as you (Valedictorian, 2200 SAT, 2 sport captain), and for her it came down to Vanderbilt, UVa, WUStL, and Pomona. She chose Pomona.</p>

18

<p>Colgate’s Alumni Scholars? Yes, ma’am. You have a chance.:wink: My kid got it with the same stats. Can you visit? They say it didn’t matter , but…</p>

19

<p>a $3-4K EFC can range from $3-4K is the only money expected from your family and you with no loans or work study. To $3-4K plus summer contribution of $2600 + W/S of $1200 + first year loan of $3400. A difference of $7200. It can be more. AMS at Colgate for example gives you research money, and a travel stipend making their FA well over $10K/year better for my D than Amherst and Yale. Other posters like mini and calmom have similar stories. (mini’s D is at Smith. calmom’s at Barnard.)</p>

<p>Some colleges play with COA in making their FA and only consider “Direct Costs” in meeting 100% of your demonstrated need. For example, they’ll leave off books, personal spending, select lesser priced dorm accomodations, travel so that the 100% is easier to meet. Watch for that. It’s sneaky. ;)</p>

20

<p>

Most of what I listed are schools where you are a match or even match/safety for admissions and are a standout in their applicant pool. You are a top 1% testing val with real good EC’s and community service. You are who the programs want to see apply. Now will you get one of the major awards? Nobody knows that, but you will be competitive for all them. There are just a lot of spectacular kids chasing the same rabbits. Belk at Davidson, Lay at Furman, Danforth at WashU, Singer at UMiami, …all of them.:wink: 100’s of kids chasing 3-4 rabbits at each college. But with your FA picture they can cobble together merit and need to where you have more chances than my D had for a free UG education at a fine school. (Not that “free UG” was our goal . It wasn’t nor should it be your goal. Affordable is the key. Best school that is affordable given the context of your life and future plans.)</p>