Just as a point of clarification, other states do recognize the middle grade certification and it is usually broader than the grades in your post. I’ve generally seen grades 4-8 or 5-9 or similar (i.e. a 5 grade band rather than 3 grades). But if California doesn’t, and California is where your D wants to live, then it’s a moot point in her particular situation.
Honestly, we sort of knew that different states were different, but thought it was crazy for an 18 year old to try and decide where you want to live after college.
1 Like
I believe Niche has the information you’re looking for with regards to how many students are studying which majors.
2 Likes
Can you please clarify why she wants to transfer? The reasons listed in the initial post do not match the reasons listed later on.
Also- would she be open to transferring to one of the schools she was accepted to in Colorado or Oregon?
While I know that California allows OOS grads to teach in California…and what I am reading supports this…I am not familiar with the exact process. Have you researched this?
2 Likes
I can see why you are confused. It is a lot tangled up into one. After looking the numbers up, UVM’s school of education isn’t that small, but there are only 4 students in her current major, Middle Level education, which is very isolating. She’ll be changing her major from Middle to Secondary, which will improve that situation. She chose UVM partially based on that unique program, and we didn’t really know to check with CA requirements about Middle. She’s now spent a year in the program, and they immerse you in education classes from first semester, so when she changes to Secondary, she’ll be behind in her requirements, since those classes were geared towards Middle. Also, since those classes took the place of the normal gen eds that most students take, she will likely be behind in trying to transfer to some other CA state schools.
“California does not issue credentials specifically for teaching in middle schools. A middle school position may require either a Multiple Subject Teaching Credential or a Single Subject Teaching Credential. Educators prepared in other states who are certified ONLY in a middle school setting have the option to choose to apply for California certification in either Multiple or Single subjects.”
She’s met with three advisors from the college of education who said they can help her create a program that will be as close to transferrable to California’s requirements as possible, but their system isn’t really geared to that. They even suggested if she thinks teaching in CA is a possibility, transferring might be something to think about.
When you add that to the fact that the college of education doesn’t do much to engage students outside of class like other colleges do there (no lectures or activities or social events), she feels isolated.
Then you add the fact that she has found out that sunshine matters to her. She didn’t mind the cold or the snow, though it was a very mild winter so who knows how those things would have affected her if they were normal cold/snow for VT.
Anyway, as I said it’s a bundle of things. If there were only one, there’s no reason to transfer, but that combination makes it more difficult and less enjoyable than it would otherwise be.
She applied to Oregon State and was accepted. She applied to CU Boulder and CU Denver just recently and hasn’t heard back yet. They both seem to have more active programs too. We’ll have to see how she feels about those if they come through.
1 Like
Is she changing her major at UVM to secondary education even though she plans to transfer to California (or one of the other schools) and pursue a plan of action that will allow her to teach middle school?
I guess I am confused about why she is switching to secondary if she plans to transfer…?
1 Like
I don’t know if you have Oregon State specifics yet, but this report includes the number of graduates in each area:
Based on the College of Education website, I understand the BS in Education is the secondary education degree and the BS in Teaching is in elementary education. Page 4 of the report shows 39 secondary graduates in 2022-23.
1 Like
That’s very helpful and gives me a clue as what to look for from other schools. Thanks!
1 Like
Because most Fall deadlines have past, she will probably have to apply for a Spring start. (Oregon State, CU Boulder, CU Denver, and possibly Chapman are the only schools that she could start in Fall.) She is towards the beginning of this process still, so she hasn’t made any firm decisions and may return for Fall. If she does, she’ll change to Secondary and knock out some of those gen eds that she hasn’t had. When/if she transfers, she will be a Secondary major if it’s a school that has education majors.
Ok now I am confused again. What do you mean she will be a secondary major “if it’s a school that has education majors.”
Would she consider a school that does not have the major?
Many schools don’t offer undergrad education majors, including most schools in CA. The assumption is that you do the education components during a post-graduate program. For instance, if she wants to be a math teacher she might get an Applied Math degree instead of a Secondary Education with math concentration. Because there are so few schools in the states she’s interested in (CA, CO, OR) that have undergrad edu programs, AND there are so few schools that allow Sophomore level transfers, she will have to consider schools don’t offer an education major.
1 Like
Many states, not just CA, require that you have a major in some content area, and your education courses are wrapped around that. So…you do a degree in say…math or biology, or whatever, and then your education courses are in addition to the requirements for the content area degree.
This is very common now.
3 Likes
Yep. What is of special interest are schools with education programs that teach about how to teach. She has a class now called Geometry for Educators. They is very rare.
Math departments may offer courses specifically for those going into high school math teaching. For example, Math 151 and 152 listed here are such courses.
I hadn’t seen this thread when you first posted. I saw your posts about USD and LMU which brought me here. Have you looked into CalTeach? It is at every UC and CSU campus.
Honestly, I think you are reading too much into what is required to become a math teacher in California. She will need to pass the CSET or prove subject matter competency to teach math. She doesn’t need to major in education.
Is the goal to have her become a teacher in 4 years? Would she be open to 5 years? If she were my kid, I would have her major in math or human development or something that interests her and then apply to the single year combined teaching credential/masters at UCSB, UCR or UCI.
CA teacher salaries are based on the number of units completed after a bachelor’s degree. Most districts will not allow teachers to advance above a certain pay level without a masters. If she knocks out the extra units and a masters immediately after undergrad, she will start at a higher salary and not have to worry about going back for more education/units later.
As far as special interest education classes, every UC offers undergraduate Education minors with courses like the ones that your daughter is taking.
I don’t understand why you feel that way. California is throwing teachers into classrooms without credentials. Having two levels of credentials gives teachers and schools more flexibility, not less. Become a Teacher - Becoming an Educator (CA Dept of Education)
2 Likes
Thanks on all the info. I’ve always heard from teachers in our CA district that it is very difficult to get a CA credential if you have not trained here. I suppose an option if she decides to transfer outside of CA is to do 4 years elsewhere and go to a Masters/Credential program in CA. You make it sound so clear-cut, so I wonder why the CA State Credentialing website confuses me. Maybe I’m reading too much into it. I have read in many places that while most states have reciprocity agreements, many don’t transfer cleanly into CA and sometimes people have to take extra tests or classes or get more student teaching.
CalTeach sounds great, but she wants to transfer Sophomore year and all UCs except 2 only accept Junior year transfers.
I have found some schools that have a Math degree with emphasis in Secondary Education, so that’s helpful, and something I didn’t know when I posted originally. I was only searching for Education majors.
I do understand that she doesn’t need to major in education. I think it comes down to this. She likes learning by doing. She wants to be a teacher who teaches math and not a mathematician who teaches. She is interested in learning more about the act and practice around teaching. She would love to get some experience in the classroom, which some programs offer all the way through. Many schools don’t offer education courses until Junior year, or sometimes Senior year. While it’s not required to be an education major, she’s most interested in schools that offer education courses before Jr/Sr years.
Lastly, she assumes this is a 5 year process and that the Masters is the end-goal.
This topic was automatically closed 180 days after the last reply. If you’d like to reply, please flag the thread for moderator attention.