Looking for suggestions for a safety school and some matches for C27

College Search & Lists
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Can I add - and hope I’m not overstepping:

  1. I understand (maybe) why W&M is dad’s favorite choice. I’m not sure I understand other than loyalty why Gtown is mom’s favorite choice. I don’t know what type of marine bio offerings they have bug guessing not much.
  2. COA is the daughter’s top choice - and really - other than you’re paying, that’s what matters. COA is unique - it’s small, and you can create your own major - and they do have writing - in addition to majors that probably interest her.
  3. COA is $60Kish but has merit. With a 3.9-.99 you’d get (per the NPC) $22K off - so you’d be just under $40K. I’m not sure her GPA but they didn’t ask for the test.

So College of Atlantic may meet the budget? Does it still not pass the value test? If not, what is the concern? Is it pre-law? Given they do run potentially an unusual curriculum, you might ask for LS placements. I wouldn’t normally suggest that but if you’re concerned.

At the same time, given the major and difficulty of work, I’m surprised you’d be ok with Gtown at $90K plus vs. $40K. You note if the fit is perfect, you’d pay - but let’s be honest:

  1. If the student likes COA, then Gtown is unlikely to be for them - and you noted she wants on the smaller side and options in marine science. I can’t find the word marine on their website - maybe I’m wrong. I just don’t see it.
  2. I remember your son - here’s where he initially applied - almost done with early applications! He has applied to Alabama, ASU, Michigan State, Virginia Tech (ED), UVA, and VCU so far.

You know what I see in #2 - you want inexpensive - and I remember that discussion. So - and maybe I’m wrong - not only do I think Gtown (as an example) isn’t for your daughter based on what you’ve said, but I’ll go so far as to say that deep down, inside, you’d be rooting for a rejection - because it’s going to be hard for a person like you, with your mindset, to stroke that big check each year, without any outcome assurance.

Maybe I’m over stepping and guessing too far - but remembering your posts, I think that.

Now - who like COA, will allow you to build a major or give more flexibility? Open curriculum schools - but they are not safeties short of Kalamazoo. Kalamazoo will hit cost (or about) - not sure they have enough marine stuff. I put a link to their fish ecology lab below. But the K Plan gives you the chance to take the classes you want plus adds in study abroad and more - where marine science things can happen. Rollins has some full ride scholarships - your daughter may not be as far off as you think. Stetson - with a 3.9 and 1400 gets you to about 52K.

What I like about these schools for your daughter - they’re small - and not robustly urban (although Rollins is a bit more). College of Atlantic is - out there.

St. Marys MD is only 1600 kids so small (not COA small), has a marine science program. It’s very near, pretty much on, the Chesapeake Bay. See pic below. While the curriculum may not be open, you can - At St. Mary’s College, students who are interested in more than one subject can create a student-designed major (SDM). This lets them mix classes from different areas to focus on a topic they care about. It’s a way to go deep into a subject while also learning from different points of view.

It has direct costs of $49,123. but you will likely get between $6K and $18K in scholarships.

My point is:

  1. I’m not sure a Gtown (I won’t speculate on others) meet her need (mom’s but not hers)
  2. I’m pretty sure you’d have a heart attack paying $90K plus a year - and you know, no school is the perfect fit…..none, zero, zilch.
  3. If you can’t buy into COA, there are others - maybe not as unique - but sharing some of the same features that are well respected.

Frankly, while you have GT as a top school on the list, I’m guessing there are others - like St. Mary’s - that put them up side to side after a visit, that the student likely, in a head to head, pick others vs. a GT.

Just some - and obviously I’m not you - but from the outside looking in - some thoughts.

fish ecology lab | K college

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COA Degrees in Action · College of the Atlantic

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College of the Atlantic has one major (human ecology) that is self-designed, plus some general education requirements. Law school does not require any specific courses or major, so that may not be much of a concern. But I can see how some people may be concerned that a student may be unfocused in choosing courses.

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As there are schools on the list that do not offer merit aid (like Georgetown and Wellesley), it seems as though your family is willing to be full pay for those. Since this is kid #3, you’re probably well aware, but I would make it abundantly clear to your kid how much you’re willing to pay for each school and let them know that before applications are submitted.

Since you seem primarily interested in safeties, that’s where I focused my list, though I did go down to the toss-up category for some schools. Your kid’s current list looks like California and then Virginia and up the northeastern seaboard. I’ve tried to stick close-ish to those areas, or at least the feel of those areas, but I did throw a few other options in of places not along a seaboard.

All merit aid amounts are for freshmen without need and come from this aggregator that was last updated in November 2025. With all aggregators, it’s best to verify from the school’s own website or Common Data Set, but this was faster for my purposes. And the schools are sorted by my guesses as to your kid’s chances for admission:

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • Agnes Scott (GA): Thirding? this school of about 900 undergrads. In addition to all the benefits mentioned by others, it’s also part of a consortium that would allow your kid to take classes at Emory, Georgia Tech, and other area schools if there was a particular class she wanted to take. Average merit award is $37,277.

  • Gustavus Adolphus (MN): About 2k undergrads with an average merit of $30,765. Had 9 graduates in most recent year of data who had Classics as their first major.

  • Hope (MI): About 3400 undergrads at this school with average merit awards of $17,754

  • Lawrence (WI): About 1400 undergrads at this school with average merit of $47,083

  • Lewis & Clark (OR): About 2200 undergrads at this school with average merit of $31,582

  • U. of Puget Sound (WA): About 1600 undergrads with an average merit award of $30,447. Had 6 graduates in most recent year of data who had Classics as their first major.

  • Wheaton (MA): Seconding this school of about 1800 undergrads with an average merit of $36,088.

Likely (60-79%)

  • Furman (SC): About 2300 undergrads with an average merit award of $31,388.

  • Hobart William Smith (NY): About 1600 undergrads with an average merit award of $33,592.

  • Rollins (FL): Seconding or thirding this school of about 2600 undergrads with an average merit award of $24,849.

  • St. Olaf (MN): Thirding? this school of about 3100 undergrads with average merit of $31,697.

  • The College of Wooster (OH): About 1900 undergrads with n average merit award of $39,386

  • The U. of the South (Sewanee) (TN): About 1600 undergrads with an average merit award of $27,492

  • Whitman (WA): Seconding this school of about 1500 undergrads with an average merit award of $21,981

Toss-Up (40-59%)

  • Brandeis (MA): About 3700 undergrads and merit aid is a possibility here (average award is $15,166).

  • Connecticut College: Seconding this school of about 2k undergrads with an average merit award of $28,097 (leaning likely).

  • Dickinson (PA ): About 2200 undergrads with an average merit award of $32,586 (leaning likely)

Lower Probability (20-39%)

Low Probability (less than 20%)

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24

Thank you all very much!

To add some clarifications, and more info for the curious. Georgetown is mainly sentimental. And one of our close friends from school there is now a marine biologist, so the path is possible, if not obvious. But as @tsbna44 noted, it’s crazy expensive, and will probably give me a heart attack if C27 goes there.

Also, as noted, my S23 goes to Virginia Tech (VA residents, sorry for neglecting to mention that), and we definitely focused on cost or value with that search. So what changed the willingness to spend more now? S25’s search and ultimate choice (Loyola Marymount University) changed our perspective quite a bit. He’s going as a film major and was also accepted to ASU and George Mason film programs (and some others but those were the contenders). He fell in love with LMU when we went to visit UCLA for college tours. Even then we were skeptical. However, without going into too much why the fit at LMU was so much better we let S25 make a presentation on why he should go there, and we made a deal. He had to figure out ways to bring the cost down (he can live with my sister who is a mile from the campus or become an RA). Plus he has to pay us back 1/3 of the amount over our budget, which means he has to convince us that he’ll have the ability to pay us back.. he added a business minor and is continuing korean to have additional skills besides film. And he knows if his grades fall apart it all ends.

And so far the results have been great. He had straight A’s in the honor’s college, has the business minor on track. Secured a research grant to study at Korean university over the summer. Is working a sports videography job so he can pay for all his own fun expenses. And is just thriving.

So, we’re going to give C27 the same chance. If a good case can be made, we’ll spend more money. But we’ll need to be convinced. I’m highly skeptical that they’d be able to pay us back for overages with College of the Atlantic (although I didn’t realize they have merit aid, so it might not be as bad as I thought). Average salary 5 years after graduation is only $35k (compared to a $45k national average), and law school feeders does not seem particularly good. So, those are my thoughts.

For Georgetown they could live with us to save money (we still go to church in Georgetown, it’s a 20 minute drive in)… but yeah, I think even with that it’s still a stretch outside of sentiment.

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@DadTwoGirls What a great call, Roger Williams University! One of our kids applied there, we toured. Campus is close to the water, relatively close to Newport, the food there is outstanding. If you’re going to add 2-3 safeties to the list, it’s a near perfect choice.

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Thanks for the thoughts.

Great to hear about LMU and your process to allow it to happen.

How much of COA’s salaries are based on majors offered vs it as a school of quality ?

They have one major but some specializations although most seems low income. It may not be a reflection on the school itself but rather the study areas which may be similarly low paying everywhere.

As per law school feederish, are you assuming or have data ? If not, have you asked? It may be kids studying what they do there aren’t interested in law vs their kids are not law school worthy. Unless they lack accreditation, I’d guess that’s what it is vs they are not able to get into law school.

Finally, since you sought safeties, any thoughts on what people recommended ? Are you going to look at any, research or none fit what you seek?

Thx

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Thanks! I’ll need to research these. I’ve heard tons about St. Olaf’s before. Hobart and William Smith came to our high school and made a good impression on C27. Mount Holyoke has come up in our research along with Sarah Lawrence.

I’m going to start researching all the rest this week, and also pass on to my kid. I want to get one really good safety that all of us are happy with. And then the rest will be gravy.

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Ugh – forgot to respond to questions about COA…. other negatives were 4 year and 6 year graduation rates seem low, especially for such a small school. And it’s currently losing money which makes me nervous.

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Yes, I wanted to remark on the VIMS program at William and Mary. It seems perfect, but it is a secondary admit. Even outside of that, there are a lot of other reasons W&M work well. They have a program with St. Andrew’s, that my kid likes - we had visited St. Andrew’s a year ago on a vacation to Scotland and C27 just loved the “vibe”. Sensing a theme?

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Perhaps it may also mean that if the student’s areas of interest are not that high paying, the student should be more adverse against taking debt, regardless of which college.

The mostly unstructured nature of the only major and overall curriculum at College of the Atlantic could mean that it attracts and graduates unfocused students who may be similarly unfocused after graduation (or they may be too unfocused to graduate, a possible reason for lower graduation rates). But does this describe the student?

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C27 is very disciplined, I do however have a small concern that they are more eclectic and curious, and can easily spend time just studying things for fun, and then taking too long to graduate.

I’m a big fan of liberal arts education, but I’m not sure this is the way to go. I am aware that switching majors and need to graduate in 5 or 6 years can happen at any school though.

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Initially I was gonna toss in Hampshire but they are at risk for sure - which by people not suggestions or applying hastens that risk.

I can’t find any financial info on COA - no bond rating - but most lose money and still sustain.

I’d dig deeper into their health if it becomes a realistic option.

Hey, if you are comfortable with a film major paying you back, marine science should be a breeze :slight_smile:

I like your methodology by the way. All have skin in the game.

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The unstructured major and curriculum probably reduces the risk of late graduation due to missing a requirement or delaying starting prerequisite sequence. However, it could result in a course selection that may be suboptimal for whatever the student wants to do after graduation.

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You saw this ad ? First link

I was hoping to find their Forbes financial health grade I can’t find it or a Moody’s rating but I don’t see any bond issuance. They might be fine financially. Their endowment is large per student - see last link.

Given St Mary’s isn’t far (1 hr 45 from Fairfax), I hope you can get there for a safety visit. Based on what you wrote, it’s a better fit than Gtown And living at home - to each their own but hopefully kids get to experience all of college, not just the class part.

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Regarding being a VA resident, in state tution may be available at Univ South Carolina, St Mary’s College of Maryland, and asko Coastal Carolina via the Academic Common Market.

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Yes, the Batten School is a secondary admit and I don’t think anyone really knows how competitive it will be going forward. The plan is to expand the number of entering students each year over the next several years and it appears that priority is being given to in state applicants. Students will still be able to do the marine science minor alongside other majors- which is how it has worked until this academic year. Of course that would not come with the scholarship, but as an in state student it is still a great option. My S22’s close friend (current senior) was sadly a year too early for the new program. I’m not sure if his primary major is biology or environment and sustainability, but he has been doing research and interning over the summer at VIMs since freshman year. He will be doing the graduate program next year . As an aside, your child might want to look into environment and sustainability major. There is both a science track and a policy track - which could be a great option for someone considering law school.

My son also has a few friends who did the St Andrews program and loved it. There are only six available majors so the academic paths are more limited. I’m not sure how possible it would be to try to complete the marine science minor during the two years in Williamsburg. Good luck to your C27. We willingly pay out of state tuition to William and Mary and still consider it a pretty good value because it really does feel and function like a more expensive private school, but I am so jealous of the instate Virginia people.

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A really off-the-beaten-track option for the right person might be Cal State Maritime Academy.

It’s small, very marine/oceanography focused and has a new oceanography major. It also has a very strong Corp of Cadets program (which I believe is no longer mandatory) which helps alums get Coast Guard jobs among other things.

Anyhow, just because I’d wager you’ve never heard of it:

Cal Poly Maritime Academy | Cal Poly

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It looks like OOS COA is about 44k. Any chance you are a Californian and would get in-state tuition? Or a west-coaster and would get WUE discount?

Tuition and Financial Aid | Cal Poly Maritime Academy

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no dice, unfortunately… Virginia resident.

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No, she needs a year working at Ralph’s (the Kroger), bunking with your son at your relatives house !! :slight_smile:

the ACM that @Hippobirdy found is gold - all three are on the list for Marine Science !! There’s large ( U of SC), mid size ((Coastal), and small - my favorite for her - St Mary’s.

$40k is thievery. You’re going for less.

And if she doesn’t go to law school, where do GT bio grads end up ? Like most good elite schools, GT doesn’t provide salaries (because I contend they don’t want you to know). They do have a high knowledge rate (for those who contest participation levels) and provide detail on jobs for bio grads - no double major- take (seems a lot of likely pre med).

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