Looking for suggestions for a safety school and some matches for C27

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Hi all - this is my 3rd go around with the college merry go round, and this forum has been tremendously helpful, so once again I turn to the collective wisdom of this board.

C27 is primarily interested in either Marine Biology, English, Classical Studies - with longer term goals of law school or marine biology, or environmental sciences. Yes, kind of broad. Fortunately, they are attracted to liberal art schools, and want a broad based education, and focus on career later.

They are near a straight A student (2 A-’s) with tough classes in everything but math. They don’t love math, and will get through Calc 1 in a dual enrollment class, but probably won’t take the AP exam. Extra-curricular’s has been eclectic, 2 years of marching band, started a gardening club, astronomy club… that sort of thing. Basically, they like exploring and trying different things.

Probably looking at test optional (otherwise a 1400 SAT)

We’re a full pay family, but put a premium on value. We are paying a lot of S25, and if the fit is perfect will pay, but otherwise would prefer to keep net cost under $160k. Colleges on the list right now are:

Scripps (C25 second choice right now)
William and Mary (dad’s favorite choice)
Georgetown Univ (mom’s favorite, dad likes, we both went there so double legacy but still a high reach, given not test optional and scores below 25%)
Wellesley
Washington and Lee
College of the Atlantic (C25 first choice, but at some point we’re going to have to tell them that this won’t pass our test for value)

So, besides College of the Atlantic - our list is very reach heavy, and no true safety school. So looking for suggestions there. Probably liberal arts. Probably on the smaller side. Need options in marine science, marine biology or environmental scientists. Decent success in placing students in law school.

Thanks!

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University of Delaware has a great Marine Biology program and offers a broad range of majors. Bigger than the other places you’re looking at, but great for a kid who isn’t sure what they want to major in.

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oh, thanks! good idea, we have friends that had kids go there, and had a good experience. I think they do merit scholarships as well.

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Eckerd College is very strong in marine sciences/biology, is a small LAC, would be a true safety, and they offer merit.

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Roger Williams University in Rhode Island has marine biology, and offers significant merit aid.

Dalhousie University, and Acadia University, both in Nova Scotia, are very good for marine biology and also for environmental science, and are relatively reasonably priced. Note the exchange rate. Acadia is somewhat smaller (about 4,000 students) and is in an attractive small town right on the Bay of Fundy (at least at high tide). At Acadia marine biology would be a concentration within a more normal biology major. Dalhousie is in Halifax, is a bit larger, and is very good for almost anything with “marine” in its name.

I am pretty sure that College of the Atlantic does have some merit based aid, although I have no idea how much or whether the NPC will reflect this fact.

The University of Vermont (UVM) is quite good for environmental sciences, although I do not know whether it has marine biology at all. One small detail is that it is good for pre-vet students, so the biology classes there will have both strong premed and pre-vet students in them. Again merit aid is possible. For us the NPC did predict merit aid, and at least for us was spot on.

Given your child’s stats, most likely all would be safeties or maybe near-safeties, and merit aid is possible at all of them. ECs are not likely to matter at all for the two that are in Nova Scotia.

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Check out Coastal Carolina,has a strong marine science program, is a Top Fulbright Scholar producing institutiion, and has holistic merit aid.

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Do you mean <$40k per year? If so, that would suggest mostly in-state publics or less selective schools that offer large enough merit scholarships to bring the net price down to that.

But if you mean <$160k per year, that leaves the full range of colleges in the US available.

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I’m not sure what your definition of value is, but with Scripps on the list, I’d look at Occidental. They have a marine biology concentration. May be a match school, not sure.

On the budget side, I’ve heard Whitman in Washington can be a great option, don’t know about marine biology or if their environmental studies would cover what you are looking for though.

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Two schools that came to mind for the intersection of smaller, liberal arts, pretty campus, not urban, possibly more affordable, and likely …

First is board favorite St. Olaf, which doesn’t have marine science, but does have environmental science, and does show up under the “Biological Science PhD Feeder” list. It’s a name that comes up on the boards enough that I’m guessing it’s come across your radar, but, if not, it could be worth looking at. Admissions rate is 48% (though I think that’s going down).

Also on that feeder list is St. Mary’s College of Maryland, which does have marine science, and is actually right on the water. Despite their framing as America’s national public honors college, I’m not sure their academics are quite at the level of many of the schools on your student’s list, but I feel like I’ve heard positive reports (third- or fourth-hand) from students about the school, and it could also be worth taking a look at. Admissions rate is 69%.

I can’t speak to their law school placements, but if the rest of either school seems intriguing to your student, I suspect the data is out there.

A third school that your student might consider — though, like St. Olaf, it has bio, but not marine science — is Agnes Scott. They do have a bio concentration in Environmental Science. Admissions rate is 62%.

(For the record, I’m on team Dad for the options you’ve laid out, but also 100% hear the need to find some more likely options!)

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I’m a huge Agnes Scott fan, only did not name it because I wasn’t sure about the concentration part for OP. It is a fantastic school though and importantly, will very likely meet the under or around $40k a year constraint OP is looking for once you factor in merit aid.

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Nova Southeastern is private so value is more in the eye of the beholder. Recently visited the school for business and was very impressed. Marine is one of their strongest majors and the school is safe for you, too.

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I should add, if one cares about these things, they would be hard pressed to find a liberal arts college of similar or better quality that is as racially and socioeconomically diverse as Agnes Scott. The location in Decatur (a great town to go to college in in its own right) with easy access to Atlanta is also fantastic. And, it is a gorgeous campus. Ok, I’ll ge off my Agnes Scott Stan platform now.

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In looking at liberal arts colleges which offer merit awards and could be safeties for your daughter, I’d include the following:

Union College has a number of options especially for someone who might be headed to law school. Here are some interesting majors in addition to English and Classical Studies:

  • Environmental Policy
  • Environmental Science
  • Environmental Science, Policy, & Engineering (available as a BA)
  • Science, Technology, & Society
  • Climate Change Studies (minor)

In addition to the above majors, there are additional resources and Union College programs which might be of interest:

  • Australia Term (focus on marine & terrestrial ecology of eastern Australia)
  • New Zealand mini-term (focus on culture, history, landscape, & energy resources)
  • Term in Washington (includes 2 courses + 30 hour/week internship)
  • Internships with NY State Department of Environmental Conservation

Note that Union is on a trimester calendar, i.e. 10-week terms instead of 15-week semesters.

Eckerd College is a liberal arts college on Florida’s Gulf Coast (St. Petersburgh) which is particularly strong in Marine Biology. They offer the following majors in addition to English:

Environmental Studies
Sustainability (minor)
Marine Sciences with specializations in:

  • Marine Biology
  • Marine Chemistry
  • Marine Geology
  • Marine Geophysics

A designated green college with an active wastewater recycling program, Eckerd offers a number of student opportunities for involvement in sustainability projects : student run farm, community garden, student run oyster farm, marine life rescue club, Audubon Society bird club, marine adventure society, student eco-reps with the college Office of Sustainability dealing with plastics reduction, recycling, etc.

Eckerd has a 3+3 program with Florida State Law School.

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In addition to St. Olaf and Occidental (mentioned above), try Mount Holyoke College and Connecticut College – these are not exactly safeties but are very likely admits and are generous with merit aid (for MHC, look at the five-college marine studies certificate program). For true safeties with merit, try Beloit and Sarah Lawrence. As other posters have suggested, a marine studies focus could be housed within either the Bio or Environmental Studies department even if it’s not a free-standing major.

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I am glad Washington and Lee is on your list! My youngest was an environmental science major. After his sophomore year he did paid research with a professor studying coral reefs in Belize. Kind of a once in a lifetime opportunity! And now that he’s graduated he’s employed as an environmental consultant. So would recommend!

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I think William & Mary sounds perfect for your kid. It has a reputation of being full of quirky, smart kids, and very LGBTQIA+ friendly.

I’m not feeling Coastal Carolina at all. I’m just not feeling the right vibes there from your description of your C27. (I’m in NC FWIW).

As a safety and outlier, you might as well have them apply to Warren Wilson College near Asheville, NC. It is super small and super duper quirky and LGBTQIA+ friendly. It does not have a Marine Biology program but does have Environmental Science and Environmental Studies with courses in aquatics. Your kid would be admitted easily and might get some big $$. My D22 went there for a little while, but she is not very outdoorsy and she transferred. I still feel wistful about it. It’s a pretty idyllic place. They have a very well known Creative Writing program and excellent music programs, fwiw.

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Thanks for posting.

I’m wondering if you are looking to be under $40K a year, as a full pay family, why you would apply to Scripps, Georgetown or Wellesley? Even W&L is unlikely to hit - so I see this really as W&M or bust.

I think what would concern me about COA is - outside of marine/environmental stuff, what would she do. You noted several interests.

Given her accomplishment and SAT score, I would suggest (not as a safety) College of Charleston in hopes she gets an invite to interview into the Charleston Fellows program. The school is a safety, the program is a reach, but it’d be a nice fit.

I think Eckerd is a good choice but as one of my co worker’s kids who goes there says, it’s a lot of partiers, people with purple here and same sex students. We have one family friend (coincidentally dyed her hair yellow) who didn’t make it but i’m not sure she was right for college. So I think you need to investigate it hard.

I think if you want $40K, you need to pick schools that will meet it and I see plenty above that will not - so when I think of LACs, which offer marine biology, it’s going to be few? Eckerd, Stetson, and Rollins come to mind - whether they hit $40K, I don’t know. Same with small, STEM focused Florida Tech which may. Rather, will LACs have enough coursework in it that you can be confident will hit $40K but don’t have the major but hopefully they will have classics too - schools like Washington College, Wheaton (MA) which has a study away at The Marine Biological Laboratory at Woods Hole (perhaps others do too, Wooster which has a co-op/intern page (good to keep no matter where you go), Allegheny, Kalamazoo which has a marine bio lab, etc. Schools like these. I don’t know if it will hit cost (if they’re as aggressive) but Hobart has Aquatic Science - looks really interesting.

What about U Mary Washington - also strong in Classics - they have Marine Bio teachings, etc

For publics, Salisbury has a Marine Science Minor you can put with bio - it will beat budget. Further from home but she has COA - would be U Maine, URI, and UNH - which with merit, should all get there or close and would be safe. Coastal Carolina is another that should hit as should UNCW. U Maine has a coastal campus called Machias - I’m not sure it’s right for an out of stater but I think Marine Bio is popular. Another small one - not sure if it will hit cost but it might - is St. Mary’s of Maryland, a small school - public Honors college.

Anyway, I think there are many there that are safe and will hit budget. Honestly, your list concerns me otherwise (given your value bent) - but I also know from your many posts, that you should be confident in your thinking because you have a good head on your shoulders.

As for law school, if it were to even happen, kids from Arkansas State to Youngstown State go to the top law schools in the country - so I’d give this no consideration. But taking a test (the LSAT) will highly drive where she gets in, not the school - so if not a strong test taker, she’ll still have plenty of law schools, but maybe not the top. But W&M or CNU or Radford isn’t going to matter.

Example - Harvard Law first year - 579 kids, 163 colleges 69% are two years out of school, 84% one year. Which grads attend ? From CNU to E Michigan to ND State to Towson to U Southern Maine - all in the first year class and other top schools are similar.

Good luck.

ecology co-ops/internships

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Agree 100 percent about William and Mary potentially being a great fit for this student. I’m not sure if @DadBodThor is a Virginia resident, but even if not it is a great value as the new Batten School of Coastal and Marine Science which launched this Fall is tuition free for students accepted into the program. (Meaning tuition for the last four semesters is covered). Students spend an immersive semester at the Virginia Institute of Marine Science during the Fall of junior year after which they qualify for $5000 stipend that can be used for research or study abroad. Like all William and Mary students, they can easily double major or minor in other subjects.

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i want to guess he is - his son is in engineering at Va Tech. Otherwise, it wouldn’t make sense given the budget.

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My read is that OP will pay much more for some schools if they think they are worth it, but won’t pay more for others. That is my read of their statement on value. So, presumably those are fine to pay more for them. I didn’t read it as a strict $40k per year budget.

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