Hey! I’m a junior thinking about my letters of recommendation. I’m thinking of applying to Brown, Vassar, and other selective schools to major in film/media studies. I know that these schools say they need two academic LORs and up to two optional LORs. Here’s my dilemma. There are three adults in my life who I know will write incredible recommendations. One is a biology teacher, one is a creative writing (elective) teacher, and one is from an activity I do outside of school that is my main passion (film). All three will write 10/10 recs for me and are like good friends to me.
Can I count the creative writing teacher as an academic LOR, since the class is a school class (an elective)? Or does she have to be one of the optional LORs? I really want to count her as an academic one if possible, because if I can’t, I don’t have a second academic teacher who would be nearly as strong as these three. Not that anyone would say anything bad, they just don’t know me well and so their letter wouldn’t do me much good. In summary, can an elective teacher for creative writing (which is academic adjacent!) count toward one of the two academic LORs to really selective colleges? Thanks!
Brown says this - and I suspect Creative Writing is an English teacher - so I’d say yes.
We require two letters of recommendation from teachers who have taught you in major academic subjects (science, social studies, mathematics, a foreign language or English)
They don’t want additional but would accept:
In our experience, the required counselor recommendation and two teacher recommendations provide all we need to make a thoughtful, informed admission decision. However, if someone has unique knowledge of certain strengths or accomplishments that would not be addressed in the required recommendations, you are welcome to have another person write on your behalf.
Vassar - I cannot find anything or an FAQ but simply says a Teacher Recommendation. Does Common allow more?
One thing you can’t be sure of is these folks will write you a 10/10 letter. The reason is - what you or they may think is a top letter - may not be - because it’s not just I love this persona nd they are great - but what can they offer about you (personality, traits, potential) and otherwise that maybe no one else has shared?
Given Brown doesn’t want extra letters, you have to think about that as well before sending in the third one.
All this said - I do think Creative Writing would be fine - but if you have concern, ask the admission reprsentative.
Thanks so much, this is so incredibly helpful! One thing I forgot to add is that a college counselor at my school has quit literally each year I’ve been there, so whoever is the counselor next fall won’t know me at all, and that recommendation will probably be unhelpful in terms of getting to know me. So when Brown says the two teachers and counselor are enough, I don’t think the counselor will actually be helpful and so will definitely want my film mentor included as a third. But everything you say makes sense, thank you!
Agreed. My D had her creative writing teacher do it, as did all the other kids in the class (small class, CW “concentration”). There is no issue with an elective in a core academic subject.
One of my kid’s recs was from an AP social studies elective. I think as long as the elective falls in one of the major subject areas (as opposed to arts or phys ed), you’re fine.
I know Brown says they don’t need more…but I don’t believe that they disregard/don’t want them. They accept up to two more; if they didn’t want them, they wouldn’t do that. I think their language is an effort to not make people feel like they HAVE to submit more than two while also making clear that they will accept more.
Schools that don’t want them don’t provide a mechanism for accepting more than the required number. UVA and Amherst are in this bucket. Vassar will accept one extra. Wesleyan accepts two extra. Etc.
Just adding another vote to this take, and also noting I don’t even think of Creative Writing as a very far out elective, since that is usually a concentration or such within an English major.
But it doesn’t matter anyway, because my understanding is even farther out electives (like, say, Economics, Philosophy, Engineering, Computer Science, and so on) can count as long as your HS considers them to be college prep classes within the core academic departments.
Creative writing should count as English – it’s an English elective, so you should be fine there. If schools accept more letters than the minimum, you can submit them, especially if they’re from people who know you in very different contexts than your regular teachers do (and if those contexts have a lot to do with your interests). My D had a letter from a science teacher and one from an English teacher, both of which were likely very good, but she had a third letter from a journalism advisor who knew her better than anyone, and had taught her in class far more than any other teacher – she submitted all three whenever she had the chance.
As far as your counselor is concerned, the purpose of their letter is to contextualize your performance in school (for example – did you take rigorous courses, etc.), so it’s less about their personal experience and relationship with you – your counselor will make use of your file, so they’ll have a lot of information available. That said, a lot of counselors will ask for a resume or a brag sheet, or they might ask you to fill out a questionnaire, so they can add more personal information. At our kids’ school, the counselors asked parents to fill out a questionnaire, too, so they could flesh out the letters with personal insights. Even if your counselor doesn’t offer to do that, you might ask them if there’s any information you could provide to help them write their letter.
FYI, Vassar asks for ONE letter. My son had two core teachers write recs but we only submitted ONE to Vassar because that is what they ask for. I’ve been told by a well known college advisor not to submit more than what is asked for. Admissions officers actually can get annoyed with extra letters. So even though my son will likely double major in math and spanish (possibly minor) he only submitted his Spanish teacher rec and not his math teacher rec. (He had both because other schools required two). So I definitely wouldn’t send in 3 to Vassar, since 1 is what they are asking for. Good luck!! (FWIW, he got in ED1!)
I am a Vassar graduate who interviewed as an alum for several years. Unless it has changed recently Vassar requires a counselors letter and one teacher. They will read a second letter but prefer it sheds light on another aspect of the applicant not particularly obvious in the application.
My son went to Brown. They require a counselor letter and two teachers evaluations. They will accept and consider a third letter but discourage it unless it provides insights into the candidate that otherwise wouldn’t be evident in the application. My kid did submit a third letter focused on an activity that was directly relevant to his specific interest in Brown and was integrated well into his application narrative.
Oh interesting, thank you! I won’t get into the Common App until this summer, so it’s good to know all this when I make final decisions about which teachers to ask this spring. Yay for your son!
Please let me know if I can help. They are both great communities and learning environments but of course there are other great schools with similarities.
Not to quibble, but I’m not sure they discourage it. I think they are encouraging applicants to think carefully about the decision to submit a third letter—and, more critically, I think they are trying to make clear that a third isn’t necessary. But I would guess that among the pool of students Brown considered most competitive, many, if not the majority, submit that third letter. And that’s because so many of them have meaningful activities and relationships that are a critical part of their application narrative, like your kid.
The only reason I’m pressing this point is that my own kid overthought this, I think, and believed that Brown preferred NOT to see a third letter—even though he did have multiple EC advisors who could have added really meaningful dimension to his application. Obviously the lack of a third letter isn’t why he didn’t get in, but with his subsequent applications he shifted his thinking and submitted as many optional letters as were allowed (one or two). He stopped worrying about annoying the AOs and really focused on presenting the best and fullest narrative within the boundaries each school provided.
We don’t have results yet, so I can’t provide evidence to support this approach. But I know he feels like he did everything he could to present his best self to these schools and will not have regrets regardless of the outcome.
