^^I saw him perform during a taping of the Jay Leno show. He was hilarious. Self deprecating, dry sense of humor, really smart. Jay could not stop laughing.
I don’t know what is wrong with so many of these guys. The stories just keep coming out.
I really, really don’t want Louis CK to get a pass on this because he did not physically touch the women.
Women should be free – especially in the workplace – of being pulled into someone’s sexual fantasy or sexual play without their consent and without fear of retribution.
Even though Louis CK didn’t touch them physically, can you imagine being a female comic, hoping your career is going to take off someday & you can make a living doing what you love, and one of the most successful comics in the business (universe?) asks if he can jack off in front of you?
Egregious abuse of power & fame to satisfy himself. His position as a very successful, very powerful comedian allowed him to continue the behavior because so many careers benefited from his success.
Yes on all the stories. It will go down in history as the me-too era I suspect.
“watching them squirm”
Right. This has happened to me (though not in the workplace, thank God). With this perpetrator in particular, I wonder if humiliation – both his and theirs – was part of the thrill.
I’ve enjoyed his shows and his comedy specials and was so disappointed when this came out. Really hard to understand. I do give him a small amount of credit for admitting that the allegations were true. Small amount.
What also makes me sad, though, are the people who will now be unemployed as a result. I enjoyed One Mississippi and, well, not sure how much I was enjoying it but was kind of watching Better Things. As I understand it, these shows won’t be continuing so it’s not just CK Louie that will lose out on revenue (no loss, as far as I’m concerned) but all those people working on his shows.
Something new? No. This happened to me when I was 12. You’ve never heard of flashers or perverts exposing themselves to women and girls?
What he did was somewhat different than a public flasher – he approached women he knew mostly in a professional capacity. Many women who were propositioned by him said they were in a public place and he asked them if they would go some place private so they could watch him do this. If he was already alone with a woman he would just do it after announcing his intentions.
So no, I have never heard of men approaching women with this specific request and I think it is some sort of fetish or disorder. This is different than the homeless, mentally ill or garden variety pervert exhibiting similar behavior in a train station or subway.
I think it is very telling that he was completely unconcerned about these women knowing who he was and being able to identify him. He had absolutely no concerns about being reported or about anyone holding him accountable for his actions. What an ego this guy must have.
Two angles no one has stated in this thread, although Harvest hinted at it in post 26:
These accusations are from women, not underage girls. That is different than accusations against Wein. and Spacey, for example. And more importantly, Louis claims he asked permission first. That is nothing like a flasher. It is the opposite of a flasher. I understand the rationale that the adult women somehow were unable to say no.
Were they “star struck”? Too surprised to say the word No? Is it a lie that he asked permission first? Star struck is way different than having the power of career in one’s hands(no pun intended) like Harvey is alleged to have done. None of us really know about Louis, but this thread is about his admission, and being granted permission first was a part of his admission.
I don’t understand his motivation to do what he admits to having done. But if we are to believe his admission, shouldn’t we believe it in full, or is it fair for us to accept parts we like yet ignore parts we don’t? In his statement, he says he felt asking(and apparently receiving) permission to do those things made it ok. That is a statement far far different than others that have been accused of improprieties lately.
Let me be clear, I think the behavior he admits to was weird. But he claims to have asked permission first, and that is different than accusations against Halperin or Bill Clinton to give a couple more examples. Those fellows were accused of doing nasty things against a woman’s wishes and/or without her permission.
One more time, I’m not saying I think it was ok. But I am saying that asking permission from adult women first, must warrant consideration.
If the managing partner or CEO in the company I work for, or a Move and Shaker in the industry I aspire to advance in says to me,
“Want to come up to my room at the Peninsula, have a couple drinks, and discuss your career options?”
Comes up behind me, starts massaging my shoulders, and says “You & I should really get together to talk sometime. I love the way you handled the campaign for XYZ”.
Or, “Can we go in this other room and can I jack off in front of you? Hey, it’s okay if you don’t want to”
It’s the power. It’s my job and career advancement. I have a choice, but do I have a consequence-free choice?
Really, it’s just better if it doesn’t come up at all! The subtle or not so subtle coercion.
Female comedian Jen Kirkman is trying to do damage control re: her career. In her podcast, back in 2014? she mentioned something about a famous male comedian saying something creepy to her. She didn’t name names. She then went on to talk about how awkward it is, when you are then asked to go on tour with this same person who said something really creepy to you. But the tour could be awesome for your career. She was using it as an example of how tough it is for a female comic to earn a living and be successful.
She ended up taking the podcast down. With the rumor mill going for years about Louis CK’s sexual preferences, Jezebel and The Daily Beast pounced. Kirkman regretted having said anything in her podcast because subsequent interviews were NOT about her latest book, or jewelry line, or script she had just sold, or her tour dates, all anyone wanted to talk about was Louis CK. Was she referencing him? Would she go on the record saying it wasn’t him? Would she say he is a friend? Not a friend?
It has blown up, all over again, since this week’s NYTimes story, and she is getting sucked into it, again. Why weren’t you brave enough to speak up? You were enabling him by being quiet. Why did you even mention it on your podcast, then take it down? A million times worse in this day and age of Twitter and Instagram and trolling.
She has a career to manage, bills to pay, and she just wants to WORK. She says it is being traumatized all over again. Attacked for what said, didn’t say, and worrying about her career.
Sure, he may have “asked for permission”, but his apology doesn’t come close to acknowledging how powerful he is in the business. It is sexual misconduct, and it hurts people’s careers, even if indirectly.
I’m glad he admitted it happened, but he does mention the words admire or admiration an awful lot during that statement. Yes, the women admired him as a comedian but the point is more that he had power over them and abused it.
I feel like he is very akin to a flasher, but a flasher with a connection to his chosen victims and definite power over them. I’ve had two experiences with flashers and in no way were they just confused men who forgot to zip up. They knew exactly what they were doing and they were doing it to get some kind of shock from me or other victims. One of them had me trapped in the window seat on a subway train. I should have stood up and brought that subway car down but I was very young and afraid. They know that, they know who they can have power over.
So awful what is happening to Jen Kirkman. She had a bad experience and should be treated as a human being in her response to it, not some sort of flawed superhero. She wasn’t enabling him at all.
I don’t think it’s very different from a flasher. It’s the same fetish, same thrill of getting off by shocking or humiliating someone, same arrogant assumption that he can get away with it.
Notice he didn’t do this to women with any power or control over him, like a booking agent or a lawyer. He did it to women who could be (and were) hurt by speaking out.
“So awful what is happening to Jen Kirkman. She had a bad experience and should be treated as a human being in her response to it, not some sort of flawed superhero. She wasn’t enabling him at all.”
This.
@collage1 Will One Mississippi and Better Things really not be returning?
Younghoss I think the women he asked permission from were the ones he was with in public and asked them to go someplace private. They turned him down from what I can tell. I am pretty sure at least one of those women did report the proposition. Think they were filming and they ultimately decided to continue rather than make a big scene and shut it down.
I am not sure about what he said to the women he was already in private with like the two girls in his hotel room.
If he did ask permission first then shock was not what he was after, differing from your typical flasher. There are a lot of articles floating around the internet from psychologists advancing various theories on why he did what he did, but what makes most sense to me is it was a fetish. Whether it was rooted in power dynamics, sexual fantasy or something else who knows.
@ams5796, I just googled it and couldn’t find it so perhaps it was just a theory or possibility that I read right when the story broke. I hope it’s not true; not only are the shows he’s been involved with enjoyed by many but, as I said upthread, think about all the people who would lose their jobs.
NYTimes. “Being a Female Comic in Louis CK’s World” by comedian Laurie Kilmartin.
Quote from the article linked above:
There’s a Hulu documentary called “Too Funny to Fail,” about Dana Carvey’s sketch show on ABC. Louis C.K. was the head writer, the guy who presumably did the hiring. When I started watching it, of course I noticed that all the writers on the show were men. And they are all great — not a dud in the bunch. But were there a couple of great female writers who didn’t even try to get a job on that show because they’d heard weird stuff about the guy who did the hiring? Are those women still in the business?
I wonder if there’s a parallel universe where I was born male and became a comic. Am I rich in that universe? Do I headline stadiums? Is my wife taking care of my son so that I can focus exclusively on my career? Am I better at networking with men because I’m not worried about sending the wrong message? Do I hang out after my show and have drinks because I know that will help me get work?
@collage1 Yes, I’ve enjoyed both of those show too. I hope they’ll continue production. But, it is terrible to think of all the folks who will lose their jobs.
In post 28. Midwest gives an excellent example of what is clearly wrong actions between an employee and the employer, dangling a promotion(no pun intended) over the head of an ambitious employee. Clear cut. Wrong.
Awful. Illegal.
Unfortunately the example does not relate to what Louis says. It applies very nicely, though to other recent examples of accusations.
Please read the link in #35
I read the link. The female comic author said she had no personal stories of misconduct between herself and Louis.
So her story of what others may have done to her, or to other people has no relevance to the Louis “apology”.
That brings us back to the topic of the thread, and that is Louis’ letter where he admits what he calls inappropriate conduct in front of women, after getting their permission.