Loving a College and Later Hating It

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Hey parents! </p>

<p>Warning: RANDOM RANTING!!!</p>

<p>Do you guys meet people on these forums who love a college before applying (visit, read literature, explore website, talk to alums, etc.) and while applying, but hate it to death and cosider it the worst college after being rejected? </p>

<p>I have been rejected places, but I don’t hate the places that rejected me. They’re still awesome colleges regardless of whether or not I got in. Personally, I’m tired of reading about people who hate a certain college simply because they’ve been given the axe by it…</p>

2

<p>I see it like going to Baskin-Robbins: you hate Double Chocolate Chip because they’ve run out and yet you could still have Black Forest Fudge? There is enough fab ice cream for everyone!</p>

3

<br>

<br>

<p>This is a well known trait of human nature. The ancient Greeks (i.e. Aesop) knew all about it:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.pacificnet.net/~johnr/cgi/aesop1.cgi?2&TheFoxandtheGrapes2[/url]”>http://www.pacificnet.net/~johnr/cgi/aesop1.cgi?2&TheFoxandtheGrapes2&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

4

<p>I would find it difficult to hate something I haven’t experienced. I might resent not being offered the opportunity of the experience, but hate would surely be far too strong a word. </p>

<p>But then I think “loving” a college is a funny idea, too. I loved some of my professors (platonically of course), and cherish some of my experiences, and am grateful to the institution for providing them and for help forming me into who I am, but still it is a strange notion. (When in Europe, I never used to hear about people “loving” their colleges, except at Oxford, but there it is always for the college itself, and NEVER the University. If you want to find out, in a group of American adolescents at Oxford which ones attend and which don’t, look for the ones wearing the Oxford U. sweatshirts - they aren’t students. Oxford students might wear the colours of their college (mine were pink and black, ugh!), but unless they are Oxford Blues (rowers or cricketers), almost never that of the university.</p>

5

<p>So what they say they hate it? What difference does that make to anyone? They are angry disappointed, its been very draining…</p>

<p>They are angry at the admin people, and why not? So let them hate it, who really cares?</p>

<p>Think about it this way, you REALLLY like this guy, have a few dates, and he dumps you, for reasons you can’t figure out</p>

<p>you did all the right things, you are smart, good looking, funny, charming, have good ecs you get my drift, and he just says, hey, you are not good enough for me</p>

<p>its okay to be mad and hate him for awhile, its just a way of letting go of the hopes, the plans and the dreams</p>

6

<p>I know what you’re talking about, anonymous. I’d guess that it has to do with the person’s emotions and how the person perceives the world. My only clear top choice when I was applying to schools was Princeton. I applied early and was deferred. While many other deferred people on CC cursed the school for making them wait and pulled out their hair, I sat back and realized that I still had another shot. I wrote two letters to the admissions office, got my interviewer to go to bat for me, and initiated an independent study based on a curriculum from MIT’s OpenCourseWare. In april, I was waitlisted. Again, there were more people who were ticked that the admissions office wouldn’t just give them a decision or that they had been unfairly passed over. So I again wrote another letter. Again, my interviewer made some calls. </p>

<p>At the beginning of July, I received a letter. It wasn’t thin. It was thick - it felt like there were at least two sheets of paper folded up inside. I opened it slowly and pulled out the contents. I read the first part slowly: “Dear Mark, we’re sorry…”</p>

<p>Closure. I didn’t hate them. I wasn’t angry. I felt a sense of loss that I wouldn’t be able to attend Princeton, but then I put things into perspective: I’d be attending an excellent public university at an excellent cost. If I had what it took to be considered so heavily by Princeton in the first place, I’d be able to succeed anywhere. The reason Princeton grads do better than UVA grads is that they’re better to begin with, ya know? </p>

<p>I feel like applicants who blame the school tend to believe that events in life happen by random chance or are out of their control. If they fail to get into a school, it’s the school’s fault. The reality is that your successes and failures in life happen primarily as a result of your actions.</p>

7

<p>Anonymous, I admit, I am also baffled by this response that I see often in student posts on the forum. I TOTALLY understand disappointment. I don’t quite get the badmouthing of the schools that turned someone down or the bitterness toward the schools. The put downs make no sense to me because they chose to apply to those schools so apparently were interested in them enough to apply and then all of a sudden, once turned down, they put the school down. “That school is so stupid! That school sucks!” Nope, don’t get that. Then there is the bitterness part. That is different than disappointment. It’s like why didn’t they take me, they should have and they were wrong not to and I deserved to go and in fact, my stats were better than Johnny’s and they took Johnny! That’s wrong, wah wah. </p>

<p>All people are different and we react different ways but I will admit, those two reactions baffle me. I have never heard my kids put down the schools that rejected them (OK, only one full rejection for each kid but that one rejection was one of their favorites). They don’t think less of those schools now. They’d be the first to tell you that they are great schools that they would have been happy to attend. They don’t think poorly of them now at all. Bitterness? They are not bitter. That is because of two reasons…one is that they KNEW that when entering the VERY SELECTIVE college admissions process that they chose to enter, that the odds were such that getting in was a slim chance but not because they didn’t believe they weren’t qualified enough (and I believe they were) but that realistically, many qualified people would be turned away who were just as qualified as those accepted and so some luck was involved if their “turn” came up in that pool…they knew they were good enough for the cut to be considered but it was beyond their control if they made that final cut when the adcoms selected the class. They knew it, and did not expect to get in. They didn’t see the rejection as a commentary of their worth, talents or qualifications or that they were “lesser” than those who were accepted but that this was merely a very likely chance that it could turn out that they didn’t get chosen. The second reason is that they knew they could be happy at more than one school. They did not pine away for ONE single “dream” school where the end all and be all was that school as if that was the only place for them. They had 2-3 favorites, plus liked every school on their list. While they are very happy where they are now and they each attend one of those favorites on their list, they likely would have been just as happy at one of the others. So, they are not bitter. And they do not hate or think poorly of the schools that didn’t take them. It’s part of the process. Disappointment is understandable, however. Even with regard to disappointment, they were not broken up about the one rejection to one of their faves…they did not cry and did not dwell on it beyond an hour or two. They knew it was a likely outcome given the odds and they moved on. They had successful admissions outcomes and balanced lists and no bad feelings. Overall, they had happy experiences and lived with some disappointments but don’t dislike those schools, nor feel any bitterness or unfairness or any ill will. Lots of it has to do with perspective when entering the selective college admissions process. </p>

<p>When people put down the schools that rejected them, I think, why then did you apply in the first place? When people are bitter that someone got in instead of them, I think, didn’t you realize this could happen even if you are qualified? Didn’t you realize you could likely be good enough and did nothing wrong but elite admissions takes so few and that talented people like yourself can’t win them all? Don’t you realize you can only go to one school anyway? Don’t you realize that one certain school is not the ticket to your happiness or success but that one can be happy or successful at many different schools? Realize next year at this time, you’re gonna be fine and this angst will be OVER! </p>

<p>All of what I just wrote is my personal opinion and I realize we all think differently in these situations. My way is not the right way but I related my thoughts as well as my experiences with my own children. I am baffled at some reactions that I observe but I recognize that we all deal with things differently.
Susan</p>

8

<p>The kids who react this way probably have a pattern of blaming others when anything goes wrong in other situations as well - a classic self-defense posture. On the other hand, there is the kid who appears to turn it all inward, blaming him/herself (S has friends who are in this boat right now after decisions). Both reactions are common after a rejection by a school where the student has invested much effort and formed an emotional bond. Sometimes (but not always) these reactions can be predicted along gender lines; some boys may feel it is more socially acceptable (macho) to react in the first way, whereas girls are more comfortable showing their vulnerability, thereby eliciting sympathy and support.</p>

<p>I have followed some of the student boards since the fall, and it has certainly been sad to see the evolution of some of these kids who went from being the school’s biggest fan to having such bitter and depressed feelings. Some manage to be very classy about it, however, congratulating others etc. although it’s obvious they are stung by the rejection.</p>

9

<p>I am thinking that it is more the process that is hated, the whole frenzy, becuase it is getting out of control</p>

<p>Its easier to be mad a SOMETHING than to be mad at an intangible, the admissions process</p>

<p>Its okay to be angry and hate something, and in fact, this site is a good place for it, why not? It is a way of venting, letting go, in a pretty safe way</p>

<p>For instance, if you apply, spent $$ get rejected, and say, gee, mom, I hated that school anyway, you get well, why did you apply?</p>

<p>I don’t understand the anger to people who are frustrated, hurt, sad, who lash out at school they LOVED</p>

<p>It is almost like a divorce or a breakup, a year of imagining, dreaming, caring, loving, hoping, talking about, and suddenly its snatched away</p>

<p>The posters will move on, get past it, but for a fleeting moment, they are )($%, and with this sick process called applying for college in its current form, I can’t blame them</p>

<p>If you don’t like it defend the schoo, or ignore it</p>

10

<p>For the record, I’m not ANGRY at those reactions, but just are baffled by them and don’t relate to them. I don’t relate to hating a school you once applied to because they didn’t accept you. I don’t relate to beating yourself up that you were not good enough or are bitter about why they didn’t take you if you knew going into it that the highly selective schools will not accept all that are “good enough” to get in. Perhaps it has something to do with self confidence and self esteem. I’m not angry at these kids’ reactions. But they seem angry at the schools or themselves and I find that too bad. </p>

<p>Roshke…that is an interesting point that boys might lash out at the school and put it down as a reaction and a girl might turn inward and think she wasn’t good enough as a reaction. Dunno but it makes sense. </p>

<p>I also was just sharing that neither of my kids took it the way I am reading these other reactions and my kids are not better but simply reacted differently. They didn’t get bent out of shape over a rejection because they KNEW the rejection was a very likely outcome when entering this highly selective admissions process. They also do not look down at any school that did not take them and still like those schools. They are not mad at anyone…the schools, the adcoms, the other kids who got in or even themselves. They can only go to one school and they know that no school is the only school to be happy at…I read stories about “Yale was my dream school and I didn’t get in but got into Dartmouth, Cornell and Georgetown and so I know I will want to transfer to Yale after my frosh year.” I want to say to that person…“trust me, you will find that one of these options you have will be like a dream school once you are there…and Yale is not the ONLY place you can be happy.” My own kid liked Yale but it wasn’t like she just had to ONLY go there. She had more than one favorite. She didn’t let herself fall in love with ONLY one school. And guess what? She didn’t get into Yale and is as happy as a kid can be at college right now…she LOVES Brown immensely. There was not a big disppointment or upset over her results. She is going to a school she likes and a kid can like more than one place and should. Any other outlook when talking of elite college admissions is simply not realistic and a set up for disappointment. Perhaps the EXPECTATIONS need to be tempered when entering the elite admissions game. If you don’t expect to get in, then if you do, it is a nice surprise. Nobody should EXPECT to get into a college with an acceptance rate that is very low. </p>

<p>I understand that the process itself may be hated but I still think some of the reactions I read say something about the personalities of those involved. If Yale didn’t take my kid, I surely am not upset with Yale whatsoever. I knew it was likely they might not take her but I also knew she had what it took to be considered (she was deferred there). Her happiness was not wrapped up with a Yale acceptance. I am not bothered by who they took over her. I understood the process going into it and so did she. She feels very good about herself and the rejection did not knock her down. She also liked a couple other schools equally (in her case, Tufts and Brown) with Yale. It wasn’t Yale or bust. It wasn’t Ivy or bust either. Lashing out at a school was never in the realm of thought. Disappointment? Sure, that is natural. The kids were not angry or hurt. They felt disappointed but not totally knocked down. It was all part of the process that they willingly entered by applying to highly selective schools. </p>

<p>I don’t agree that everything is suddenly snatched away. A kid should have a balanced list of schools and not expect to get into each of them and particularly not a reach school. When some don’t come through, it should be expected. Everything is not snatched away unless there are NO acceptances, different story. A kid can go to only one school and can be happy at more than one certain place. Perspective is needed before entering this game and during it and after it. That is my opinion. That doesn’t make me angry whatsoever at those who react differently. I acknowledge that everyone acts differently in situations. I am baffled by some reactions and would not choose them myself but am not putting down those who react that way or I am surely not angry at them!</p>

<p>Susan</p>

11

<p>Since we are discussing emotions, I will add that my heart aches for those who receive rejections, particularly when very qualified to get in. Again this year, each kid I interviewed for my selective college, got denied. Some seemed so fantastic to me. I knew this was a likely outcome but my heart aches knowing they were more than good enough to get in, and in some cases, pretty amazing to me. I don’t feel angry but I feel disappointed for them.</p>

12

<p>Susan - I completely agree that the ones who react like your kids may have good doses of the two things you mention - self-esteem and realistic expectations. Unfortunately, not everyone has an adequate supply in either category!</p>

<p>It is sometimes easy to forget that the VAST majority of people out there are nowhere near as well informed going into this process as the people who read these boards! I was pretty much shocked myself when I first started reading the college literature and these boards and realized that the process had gotten as competitive as it has! A lot of people still go into it a lot more blindly.</p>

13

<p>Roshke, I couldn’t agree with you more. The self esteem part is too bad but I do understand that. The unrealistic expectations are also too bad but for some people, I understand that too because they are NOT well versed on what elite or highly selective admissions is like and figure, “I’ve got the goods, I’m good to go.” I mean even local teachers here, and the GC, would tell my older D, “You’ll get in ANYWHERE you apply.” but she and I knew better that that was not necessarily true given the odds and that highly qualified candidates are rejected by the scores at the most selective schools. I’ve had people tell my younger D that she’d get into any musical theater BFA program because “she is talented,”, etc but they had no idea how competitive it is to get in (about an avg. of a 5% admit rate). So, I fully realize that there are applicants who also are NOT realistic. I see it on CC all the time…college lists that are considered all reaches and then no matches or safeties. I don’t care if you walk on water, that is not realistic. I have clients come to me with their wish list for colleges and then give me all their stats and personal information and I have to gently explain that those schools are not remotely possible (they are not nearly in range) or if they are a top student, that the odds are difficult and they need some easier schools on the list. My younger D’s close friend who is VERY talented in MT and accomplished, only applied to five BFA programs and the five were the Ivies of the field. The chances of getting into any of them are extremely slim. She was a reasonable candidate, however. When I heard the list…what was on it and how few, I was extremely worried. I know she is good and I’m sure they figured, here are the schools that are known for talented kids like her. But it was not a realistic list given the odds, even if she was truly a realistic candidate. Results? Denied at four, got into for acting at one but she is truly a singer/dancer and I am not sure she’d want to go for just acting. I don’t know what she is going to do now but I predicted that the expectations were not realistic enough when the list was formulated. I’m not blaming anyone because people are just not informed. Hey, they don’t read CC, LOL. </p>

<p>So, I agree that reactions are tied to expectations. Then of course there are self esteem issues and while my kids did not let a rejection knock down their confidence but they did feel disappointed, others take a rejection to mean way more than it signifies. I understand these two issues very much so. </p>

<p>The anger at a school…hating it…etc…I understand a little less, however.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

14

<p>Susan - Just take a look at some of the raw emotion expressed on the Legacy Rejects thread, and it’s from the parents! Maybe not such a stretch to see where some kids get it from!!</p>

15

<p>I get it, because it is a knee jerck reaction to a very difficult situation</p>

<p>My D tried out for a sport, she worked hard, loved the tryouts, watched the games, etc. It was wrenching when she got cut. She no longer watches the games, doesn’t care if they win or lose, and went through a week where she hated the sport, the coaches, everything- her heart just isn’t there anymore</p>

<p>Well, she has since moved past it, doesn’t hate the sport, but can’t bring herself to watch the games again, she has found something she loves to replace that sport, so didn’t wallow or hold onto the anger, yeah, she was )*%# at the sport, at the coaches, at the whole thing</p>

<p>She has no self esteem issues, her confidence wasn’t rocked, she was frustrated and irked. She saw players make the team that, frankly were terrible, while great players with years of experience were cut. There were players cut my D did not like, but she thought were great players who she thought should have made it, so it was not a jealousy thing. THere was no rhyme of reason to how the coaches were thinking…</p>

<p>SO not all kids venting have self esteem issues…often its just being mad, and maybe not being able to articule all the emotions they are feeling with clarity during a very difficult time</p>

16

<p>My kid had a similar thing happen in a sport, Citygirlsmom, but she wasn’t mad but more disappointed at the situation. Frustrated was part of it but anger was not. She didn’t then hate the sport. Her heart was still very very much in the sport. </p>

<p>My D has played soccer since K. She loves it. She was on JV in ninth and tenth grades. She trained and conditioned all summer to prepare for the preseason prior to 11th. This involved getting up at the crack of dawn to run and work out while she was on a travel trip for six weeks with teens across the country (the directors of that program couldn’t believe this kid’s dedication to training for her sport back home on the trip while everyone else was sleeping each day). She did the ten day preseason. My D plays goalie. She met all the requirements for timed runs, etc. The Varsity team had always had two goalies in the past. There was one returning varsity goalie. My D figured she was vying for the other goalie slot. Turns out, the coach took NO new goalies and just kept one, the existing varsity goalie. My D did that all basically for nothing because there was no slot available…nobody was taken instead of her. He just took nobody in the first place. She really didn’t need to bother with training and trying out because she wasn’t trying out for any opening that existed, as it turned out. Others were surprised he’d risk having only one goalie. I think as the year went on, the coach regretted that decision. It was what it was.The coach also lost out on the potential that this JV goalie would ever be back again after sitting out a year and so he might really need that goalie in the future the next year but most quit once they are dropped from the soccer teams. It was HIGHLY disappointing for my D. She had done this sport for 11 years and it was what her autumns were about. She wasn’t truly vying for a spot on the team as no spot existed. All other juniors who didn’t make varsity then quit the sport. </p>

<p>My D loved soccer. So, she volunteered to coach a fifth/sixth grade girls’ team that fall. She loved coaching that team. She also reffed for youth games. She turned the disapointment into a win win situation. Then the next year, rather than give up soccer like the other girls had who didn’t make varsity the previous year, she tried out once again for goalie. She made varsity for senior year and was the starting goalie at every game. Her team went onto the state quarterfinal championships. She even wrote a college essay about this experience. </p>

<p>Disappointment? Yes. Anger? No. Quitting? No. Turning it into another opportunity to be engaged in the sport? Yes. Making lemonade from lemons? Yep. The setback was tough but not enough to bring her down. She worked her butt off to get on the team and it didn’t matter. She was not let onto the team. Not a nice feeling. But rather than wallow in woe, she really made something of the situation and in fact, came to love what she did instead. She has continued to work with children with sports since that time. She will even be doing so in Europe this summer. She may never have had the chance to coach those girls in soccer (which she loved) had she gotten on the team in junior year. She now plays goalie for the intercollegiate Club Soccer team at Brown. She may have lost the chance to be on Varsity that one year in HS, but she came out a winner. It is just a different reaction to a situation.</p>

17

<p>Hate the college now? Sounds like they are finding a way to resolve cognitive dissonance. Acceptance will come when the hurt abates.</p>

18

<p>My S went 4 for 5 last year–all super selective schools, including an SCEA rejection by Stanford…and while he was bitterly disappointed for 2 1/2 days (and oh how painful that was for his mom to watch!), he NEVER took at as a rejection of him; he never blamed Stanford; and he never doubted he’d be offered admission to at least one and possibly more than one of his other schools and that he’d be happy wherever he wound up. And he had in fact “agonized” over whether to apply ED to the school he’s at now (Cornell), instead of SCEA to Stanford, so it’s not even really “second choice.”</p>

<p>So, he doesn’t think badly of Stanford.</p>

<p>I do.</p>

<p>It baffles me, too.</p>

<p>I know all the things everyone on CC posts about 20 qualified applicants for every one accepted. I know all the things about an application, not a person, being rejected. And I would NEVER EVER say out loud I hate Stanford. </p>

<p>But I do.</p>

<p>Maybe I’m just a mom defending her cub? Maybe I’m irrational and unreasonable. But I surely will never do anything nice for Stanford – even in the unlikely event S chooses to go there for grad school (and Stanford would let him), it will be hard for me to “love” the place. After all, it rejected my son. And I don’t understand why. Other than the “left-handed oboe player” crapshoot lottery type stuff. I don’t understand it. Maybe if I did I wouldn’t have these residual bad feelings–even after almost a full year of watching S make Dean’s List and love-love-love Cornell. </p>

<p>So, I do assure everyone here: I recognize irrationality when I see it, even in myself. I do not and will not “bad mouth” Stanford, in public or in private. BUt in my heart of hearts (and on an anonymous message board) I will admit, I hate the place. So, Anonymous, I don’t understand it either. But I sure do “get it.”</p>

<p>And let the record reflect: I am fully aware that my deep dark feelings don’t matter squat to Stanford!</p>

19

<p>Overanxious Mother, now if he had been a left FOOTED oboe player, he’d be IN now! j/k:D</p>

20

<p>Thanks, Susan…that made me smile…and writing that post was positively cathartic…thanks to CC for being here, and to Anonymous for raising the question…</p>