Not sure why people keep suggesting these schools. Yes, I know there is not as much competition as a state university. However, I want to know why no one talks about the most negative outcome associated with attending a lower ranked LAC: the ranking of medical school you get into?
Yes, all medical schools are equal and closely monitored by the AAMC so no “bad doctors” slip through. But, I think it’s misleading to give students like me the impression that by attending a lower ranked LAC, we would be competitive for any medical school out there.
For example, let’s take a common name dropped out there: College of Wooster.
In countless threads, people (mostly parents) say that this school (and similar lower ranked LACs) are premed havens.
Not to mention that the schools these applicants went to were not as high-ranked as many of the high school students are hoping they could go to, coming from a lower-ranked undergrad.
Am I incorrect in my opinion? I just feel like a lot of these schools are being put out there without the posters telling students the “downside.” Whether this is a negative or not, I don’t think it’s appropriate to let a 17 year old essentially shape his future out of “fear” of being weeded out at that higher ranked school he/she gets into or by telling them to attend a lower ranked schools solely because of this? Or even giving the illusion that they could go from any college to Harvard med (obviously a hyperbole, but that is essentially the message being promoted by so many on here).
I would love your advice because I am narrowing down my college lists. In no way do I intend to attack anyone who suggested these opinions. I just want to make sure I’m not missing a part of the puzzle as I narrow down my colleges.
What are the acceptance rates for other LACs that you would prefer to attend? Are the rates at 100%? Are the schools submitting applications from every student who wants to go to medical school or limiting them to only students who have met a minimum in either MCAT or gpa?
I think 6 of 8 is pretty good. Some may have taken the gap year because they didn’t have the pre-reqs to apply directly to med school, some may have needed the break, some may be out of money and couldn’t afford to apply right away.
It’s up to you. Go where you feel you have the best chance of getting into med school. Often the advice is to go to the undergrad where you can keep debt down for undergrad. It doesn’t do you any good to get into med school if you can’t afford it.
4 of the 10 listed schools are in the USNWR top 50 research med schools (Top 1/3). Every premed in the world thinks they are going to H for med school. The key word in your comment is hoping.
You should be afraid of being weeded out. Sit in a top school Chem class with future ChemE’s and PhD’s and see how it goes. It can be a really humbling experience.
Medical school rank is far less important to a pre-med than (a) whether the pre-med gets into any medical school at all (most frosh pre-meds never get to point of applying due to GPA or MCAT being too low, and most who apply get rejected everywhere), and (b) the cost and debt associated with attending medical school (in terms of whether it is worth it to attend medical school at all, or, for those few who have a choice of more than one medical school admission, which one may be more cost effective).
I was just a bit surprised abut how only 8 people from the graduating class as a whole were applying, even though this school was being floated around as a good premed school.
I’m not sure about the acceptance rates of my top pick LACs.
I am definitely applying to schools where I am above 75 percentile, so it’s not like I’m saying all of these schools are bad at medical school placement. I just was a bit alarmed by I guess how little applicants they produce.
@ucbalumnus Good point about the financial aspect of it.
I have a financial question. I am applying to LACs where I’m above 75 percentile, hoping to get merit aid. However, I will likely need need based aid as well.S hould I call and see if the schools I’m applying to for the sole purpose of merit aid, and cheaper Undergrad costs, offer merit aid to cover the gap my need-based cannot or if they apply merit aid firstly then need?
If they do the latter, then it isn’t worth applying to such schools, correct?
Why would large or small numbers of medical school applicants be inherently good or bad for you as an individual pre-med? Indeed, if there are fewer pre-meds, the environment may be less competitive.
Make sure you understand how merit and need-based aid work together.
Typically, merit awards offset “need” (so the amount may be subtracted from any need-based award you would have received). The merit award does not “stack” atop any need-based grant aid to result in a lower net cost. So, the merit award does you no good (other than the glory) unless it covers more than 100% of demonstrated need.
There may be exceptions (for example, where a merit award is applied against the “self help” portion of a need-based aid package). Investigate carefully if this is important to you.
Compare Wooster’s numbers to Allegheny, Ohio Wesleyan, Juniata, Muhlenberg, Beloit, Hobart, Wheaton MA, St Bonaventure, St Anselm, Siena, St Michael’s, Luther, Earlham, Augustana IL, Concordia Moorhead, Gustavus Adolphus, Millikin.
Then compare to St Olaf, St Lawrence, Butler, DePauw, Dickinson, Denison (for instance).
8 is very low indeed (I would have expected 15-20 for a school that size) but I doubt it’s because they weed out. Ask.
Wooster is known for its mandatory research component, attracting a higher proportion of students whose goal is grad school (PhD), it might be a factor.
Sometimes it’s hard to work out the statistics to see who does and doesn’t weed out. For instance, my kids’ school reports a 91.7% acceptance rate to med school last year for all students who worked with the medical studies committee. (11 out of 12 or 22 out of 24) and a 100% rate for vet and dental school (could be a single student or a dozen). Many other students reapply or apply for the first time after taking some time to study for MCATS or do internships that would strengthen their applications.
The school will write a letter for any student who works with the committee. There’s no official GPA or score cutoff. At the same time the stat is only for students who work with the committee, and that’s a long process, including submission of a resume, self-assessment, transcript, and references and doing mock interviews and a formal interview with the medical studies committee. I’m sure some kids are counseled out along the way. As in “Hey kid, we’ll write a letter for you, but with a 2.8 GPA you’re just not gonna get in. Are you sure you really want to pursue this?” Doubtless more drop out along the way as they realize their freshman dream of becoming a surgeon isn’t realistic or they discover their interest in a different field of study.
It seems to me that it’s important to compare apples to apples as far as that is possible and to realize that a higher ranked school may get a higher percentage of their applicants into med school but that the courses may be tougher, meaning more self-weeding of kids who can’t stand up to the rigor of slightly tougher science courses. It may also be that kids admitted to the more selective undergraduate school as a group had higher SATs, a factor that correlates with higher MCATs.
One advantage to attending a lower ranked school if you’re sure med school is for you and you aren’t going to get a lot of need based aid is that you can often get merit money so that you can save some money for med school instead of having to bust the family’s budget for 4 years of undergrad. If you need substantial aid it could be a wash or you could actually come out ahead at a needs-met school.
I’d advise digging around the med school/graduate outcomes pages of the schools you’re considering, paying close attention to the language used. Is there a competitive process for a committee letter? A minimum GPA? Does the committee support all applications? How hands-on is the committee in advising students? For instance, will they advise students on course timing and internships? Are there any special programs available to students, like guaranteed entry for students who have met certain criteria by the end of sophomore year? If you have specific questions you can’t find answers to on the school’s website you can email the head of the school’s medical advising committee.
I know students who have gone to Wooster and loved it, but none of them have been even remotely interested in pre-med so I can’t really comment on how that goes there.
I can say one of my most common pieces of advice is to look at what recent grads have done (any major, any college) and if you’re happy with it, then assume you can do it too with comparable grades, work, etc. If you aren’t happy with what you’ve seen from recent grads, use that info when making your college choice.
It’s also very common for many students now to take a year off before applying to med school rather than going straight to it making that stat pretty meaningless.
The average acceptance rate overall for all applicants is somewhere around 40% (no time to look it up exactly at the moment), so 75%/65% is pretty good TBH.
The fact that many of the med schools are state schools could merely imply that finances were a significant factor for the students. If they got into one of their state med schools, most are less expensive than elsewhere.
First, I do not think of Wooster as “lower ranked.” In the early- to mid-2000s, Kenyon’s acceptance rate was over 60%. It’s now a hot school because its admit rate is 34% In the mid-90s, Colorado College was well-regarded, but its acceptance rate was not 15% (NOTE: Yale’s admit rate in 1993 was 22.9%). We do not–or should not–evaluate schools based on how many students a college is rejecting, nor should we pay serious attention to that US News thingie, which gives weights to just about every factor except what actually happens in a classroom.
I digress and so apologize. Second, med school isn’t really dependent on the undergrad institution. Earn high grades, score high on the MCAT, obtain terrific (not just very good) letters of rec, and you’ll get into medical school. If you’re aiming for a top medical school, you’ll need to be well-rounded applicant (sometimes a non-STEM major makes one stand out) who has participated in relevant projects/organizations, etc. It’s sort of like applying to top undergrad schools: high grades and test scores are not enough. Go to an LAC if you like, or don’t. No one here, I think, has been arguing that LACs are the pipeline to Harvard Medical. Rather, pre-med is so brutal that some aspirants might find the smaller classes and closer faculty contact at a LAC helpful.
Third, plenty of doctors go to good medical schools that are not T20. USF has a medical school (#79 in the USNews thingie), and its acceptance rate is 4% (NOTE: acceptance rates are very low for practically all medical schools). I’m originally from Chicago, where Rush Medical is considered a solid choice (#59), and its acceptance rate is 3.8%.
Also note that many LACs have guaranteed admission to certain medical schools. Lots of midwestern schools have agreements with Rush. These guaranteed-admission schools will almost certainly not be T20, but adjusting downward is hardly humiliation. If you have a family physician (or a number of doctors you and your parents see), try to find out where they went to medical school. My primary care physician went to UF Medical (#65). The majority of working doctors did not attend T20 schools. Sure, strive for the top, but medical school is brutal and an amazing achievement whether one graduates from UCLA or Rush or wherever.
Any “guaranteed” admission to medical school offered at frosh entry will be contingent on earning a very high college GPA and MCAT score, which keeps the stress level high for the pre-med. However, if the pre-med does achieve that, then the stressful and expensive process of applying to a dozen or more medical schools with a more than even chance of getting no admissions at all can be skipped by matriculating to the associated medical school.
Many early assurance programs or BS/MD programs do not require students to take the MCAT. Most require an undergrad GPA around 3.5-3.6. Some that don’t require the MCAT require a high SAT or ACT
My daughter went to a top LAC. Her childhood friend went to a LAC most people have never heard but provided great merit aid. Her aim was always Med school. We live in the PNW and one of the best Med schools in the area and probably the country is UW. My daughter’s friend from her graduating class, also on the Med school track as well as her childhood friend, both applied to UW. Her friend from her graduating class was accepted rather quickly her childhood friend was not. I will also mention, both are excellent students. Her childhood friend went on to be accepted at another pretty decent Med school although not as highly ranked as UW. She is somewhere back east now doing her residency. At the end of the day, both are doctors. One path was less bumpy, the other took a lot of effort and patience applying to many schools but in the end incurred less debt.
Do what is right for you.