Macalester International Studies [$60k] or UCSD Poli Sci [$80k]

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For better community input, please provide the below details about your college offers:

Net price per year at each college, after applying scholarships and financial aid grants.

60k per year for Macalester

80k per year for UCSD

Maximum parent contribution per year.
I can pay either in their entireties from a college fund

Major/division admitted to at each college, if applicable to the college. Also, any special programs like honors programs or combined degree programs (e.g. BA/BS->MD).
International Studies at Macalester and Poli Sci/International Relations at UCSD

If you applied to regular fall term start, specify if you were admitted to start at a different campus, in study abroad, in an online/distance or extension program, or other than in the fall term.
I was admitted to the regular programs at both universities

Desired major and post graduation goals (including if pre-med, pre-law, etc.).
I’ll probably do grad school or maybe law school but I’m not certain if I even want to attend either yet.

If not a frosh admit finishing high school, indicate status (e.g. sophomore level transfer, junior level transfer, frosh after gap year(s)).

International or domestic student (and state of residency if domestic).
Domestic student in Massachusetts

Student preferences beyond the above (including weather, class sizes, campus culture, college demographics, fraternities/sororities, distance from home, etc.).
UCSD obviously has better weather and the housing/dining situation is much better there however I’m worried that the size and stem focus of the campus will make it difficult to find my people. I do also like how internationally focused Macalester is but I wonder if UCSD being more diverse would actually be better in that regard.

Preliminary assessment of each college based on the above.
Macalester has a lot of pros I think. It’s got small class sizes, a strong focus on internationalism, interesting classes, and the community seems really friendly and welcoming. However I’m not 100% certain that the small class sizes are positive because it seems like a lot of students on rate my professor talk about how arrogant their professors are/how much work their classes are and I wonder if that’s made worse by the small class sizes. One other issue is that it seems like Macalester doesn’t really accept AP credits for anything useful which ticks me off slightly. I’m also not sure about the small campus and if I would get bored on it. On the other hand though the students who attend seem to typically share my interests in international affairs and I think it would be easier to find people who I share common interests with there.

UCSD similarly has a lot of pros. As far as I can tell it’s Poli Sci department and particularly their IR section is well respected and as I said above the quality of life there would be much better. However I don’t love the huge class sizes and am worried I could get lost in the crowd there. Furthermore I know UCSD has a big stem focus and I’m not sure I could find my people as easily as at Macalester. On the other hand though they do accept a huge number of my AP credits and I do like the quarter system they have. I could probably get out of 1/2 or more of my Gen Eds there and take more interesting classes earlier on (although the course titles for lower division courses seem more interesting at Macalester). I’m not too worried about the physical size of campus and I’d be closer to family on the West Coast as well.

Overall I feel like I’d do well academically at either university but I’d probably have an easier time socially at Macalester and definitely have a better quality of life at UCSD. What do you all think? Would you recommend the tiny liberal arts college experience or the huge state school one? Thank you sorry.

Why did you apply to each college you are considering?

Honestly I didn’t either of these to be my final choices. I only applied to UCSD because I was already applying to other UCs and I only applied to Macalester because my counselor recommended it on account of my interest in international stuff.

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Have you visited either school? If so, did you like one more than the other?

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I visited and liked both and I guess feel better about Macalester but that’s probably because that was an admitted students day while UCSD was just a regular tour.

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I admit I am very much Team LAC, so I’m a little biased here, but I would take the opportunity to go to Mac. It’s a terrific and vibrant school with a diverse population, including a lot of international students. Campus is small but the Twin Cities are large and offer a lot (hopefully you poked around a bit to get a feel for it). They are also far less expensive (in terms of cost of living) than La Jolla/San Diego. I happen to like the upper Midwest better than southern California (I’m from LA), so I guess I’m biased there, too, but the area around Macalester really does have a lot going on. I’m sure both schools will set you up with internships and field experiences, but the specific focus on applied work at Macalester can mean a lot of opportunities for an international studies/poli sci student.

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Macalester is urban - in a lot of ways there is easier access to city things than at UCSD. The twin cities are a great place with the drawback (for some) being weather…but you’re from MA so you’d be more prepared than others for sure.

Also…I’m sure you know this but:

Saving a total of $80K going to a private school is a nice option. My kid goes to UCLA, and gets wistful about the possibility of having chosen Macalester whenever it’s time to sign up for classes (it’s so very hard for her to get her first or even second choice classes and she’s a junior who came in with a zillion AP credits). The scholarship $ shows they value you. The UC experience is fun but has its disadvantages - paying out of state tuition, those drawbacks come into sharp focus for our family a lot…

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Thank you so much!

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The point about course registration makes a lot of sense, thank you!

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Thoughts:

  • No argument about better weather, but is the housing/dining situation really “much better” at UCSD? UC housing is crowded. Most students move off campus after a year or two, and apartments that are both nice and conveniently-located are expensive.
  • Diversity - it depends what kind of diversity is important to you. If having a very large Asian population is important to you, UCSD clearly leads on that front (although my Asian niece has been very happy at Mac). OTOH, Macalester has almost triple the Black representation, proportionately, that UCSD has. And geographic diversity - 92% of UCSD domestic undergrads are from California, whereas only about 16% of Mac domestic undergrads are from Minnesota (and 13% are from California!). Both schools have a significant share of international undergrads - 16% at Macalester and 20% at UCSD. They’re different, but I don’t feel that the differences should necessarily sway your decision; each offers significant diversity in its own way.
  • AP credits: This rarely matters as much as it feels like it will. The classes you take in college will not be a retread of your AP classes - there’s no reason to assume that your gen eds won’t be interesting. Most often, AP credits just give general elective credit, and that doesn’t make that much difference in the scheme of things, unless you’re intent on graduating early, which often means passing up some of the most interesting and valuable coursework. If there’s something you really should place ahead in (like calculus for example), you generally can, whether via AP credit or placement test or whatever. Placement is more important than credits; you’re going to college for the education you’ll receive there.
  • What does “I’d probably have an easier time socially at Macalester and definitely have a better quality of life at UCSD” mean? What, other than the social and academic experiences, would make the quality of life at UCSD “definitely better?” (Especially since you also say, " I guess feel better about Macalester.")
  • As you note, both are strong academically. Mac students can also cross-register at UMinn Twin Cities, if you want a taste of the large-flagship experience.

IMHO, if you were a California student who could attend UCSD for $20K/year less than the cost of Macalester, this would be a much tougher decision. While UCSD is strong academically in your areas of interest, International Studies and Poli Sci are still basically broad social science degrees, no matter where you go. Paying $80K/year and dealing with the competition-for-resources at a UC, for a more-or-less “vanilla” BA (and likely the need for graduate study afterward anyway), doesn’t make a ton of sense to me unless the particular program is super special. Also… the UC’s will still be there for grad school, whereas this is your only chance to have the kind of experience that Macalester offers. In your place, I would bank that extra $20K/year and get some tartan swag.

That said, a $20K/year differential is more important to some families than others, and if you have a clear preference for UCSD and can afford the difference without debt, then go with your gut!

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I’m a big fan of the Twin Cities–they are historic, diverse, globally-connected, cultured, fun, SUPER friendly, just everything I like in a city (or two). I am also from the Upper Midwest myself, so I don’t mind a real winter. But in general I think Macalester’s location is a huge plus for everyone who is OK with a four-season climate and likes cities.

Of course UCSD is a great research university, and I like San Diego too, but UCSD does not have the same sort of great central location. I also tend to think LACs for undergrad, research universities for grad or professional school, can be a really savvy plan for a top-notch education–assuming you can afford it.

Which leads me to a last thought, and basically echoing others, which is that UCSD is a great deal for California residents, but REALLY expensive for non-residents. I’m not saying that could never make sense, but I think it is kinda dicey to spend that much for an OOS public absent a very specific and compelling need to do that.

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Thanks I think you’re probably right about UCSD not being worth an extra 20k per year!

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Thank you that all makes a lot of sense, particularly how Macalester could be better for grad school!

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Are these your only 2 choices?

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Macalester is way cheaper, and you get more for your money even at the same price point, more personalized, and people will be from all over the US and world, as opposed to 80%+ from one state. It will be cozy and dynamic. I would go Mac all the way.

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My kid is at Macalester on a similar award (after making a similar decision except we were in state for the UCs) and because of housing challenges, class sizes/course registration, teacher-student connections, etc. we went with Mac. It’s been excellent and it feels like we are getting away with something. If you’re motivated by academics, esp. the liberal arts model, it’s a really fantastic place to go, particularly for the social sciences (international studies, political science, economics are all super strong). Mac has close ties with the UWC system so there are international students on campus from all over the world. Mac Forensics is well known nationally, and grad school admissions for Mac are impressive. Both the profs and fellow students have been supportive and encouraging. Agree on the downsides being weather and food, esp for us coming from California (the tacos and Asian food have definitely fallen short so far), but vacations come at regular intervals and there’s a super long winter break (pre Xmas through late Jan). A few local restaurants and a Whole Foods in walking distance have also helped. My kid loves the arts and likes going to see performances in the city, so that’s been great…and definitely cheaper than the LA/SF/NYC prices we normally pay. Another nice bonus has been the ease of travel-- the airport is very close with plentiful flight options. For the right kid, it’s an amazing opportunity. Good luck with your choice!

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The above is not an accurate statement. Both are fine for grad schools. UCSD has a worldwide reputation that is positive; Macalester is an unknown beyond LAC aficionados.

Extremely close friends and relatives have held long-term highly influential & powerful positions in the Twin Cities area. All eventually left and cut ties. I have another close friend who was a very successful Mayo Clinic physician and left as well. One of our family member’s first college acceptances was to U Minnesota.

I am also familiar with San Diego and La Jolla, although not recently.

Finding your people at either school should be easy/normal.

Do NOT base your choice on which school you think is better for grad school as both are fine to outstanding.

I cannot make a recommendation for you as I am not you and I do not know you or your finances. Consider asking Macalester for more money.

P.S. One aspect that I like about universities versus LACs is the presence of graduate students. Easily among the nicest, kindest, most helpful people whom I have ever met.

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Grad schools know Macalester.

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Exactly. And Macalester has a relatively high per capita PhD placement rate.

Which doesn’t mean it is automatic. For competitive grad programs you still need to do well, get faculty support, test well as relevant, and so on. But just by their nature, good LACs make it relatively easy to find an academic area where you can excel, work closely with top faculty, and generally get very well-prepared for graduate programs.

All of which is also possible at large public research universities. But not necessarily as easy, including because they do not have such a specific focus on a flexible undergraduate education.

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Especially considering UCSD OOS is 20k more expensive than Macalester.
(It’s crazy to think one would pay more for a public university than for a private education, with all the perks people usually pay extra for.)
The 80k difference could serve all sorts of experience-enhancing opportunities and/or post graduation help - including to attend grad school at a UC.

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Agree. However, UCSD has a strong reputation that extends beyond our country’s borders.

Both are wonderful, but very different, options.

Although Macalester does not appear on this list of top 50 IR schools, UCSD does as well as several LACs (Colgate & Colby are the top two LACs):

https://political-science-schools.com/international-relations

Class size will certainly be larger at UCSD than at Macalester College, but UCSD has a graduate program(s) in IR which is ranked #11 by Foreign Policy Institute/William & Mary study (2024).

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I will say sometimes large public research universities have special majors, schools, undergrad programs, and so on that are not common even at midsize private research universities, let alone LACs like Macalester. And while normally I would suggest looking in-state first, there are times I could see going OOS for such a program.

But I also think a lot of HS kids may overemphasize that factor, at least for professional paths that often involve grad or professional school. Because in those cases, often you do not need to do anything very specialized in undergrad, and might even not need to major in anything in particular as long as you take whatever classes they view as important.

And then of course so many people just change their mind anyway. And it is not such a great result to pay a bunch extra for a college supposedly Good for X when you then don’t even end up doing X.

So college can be a time where you continue to pursue a top general education, along with whatever focused curriculum you end up actually needing. But that can be a tough sell to people who have really bought into the idea you should already know your X, and be paying whatever it takes to go to the best Good for X college that will cash your checks.

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