<p>I enjoy watching this weekly roundtable discussion of Mad Men. They last about an hour but I enjoy the insights.
[This</a> Week in Mad Men #26 – “The Phantom” | ThisWeekIn](<a href=“http://thisweekin.com/thisweekin-mad-men/this-week-in-mad-men-26-are-you-alone/]This”>http://thisweekin.com/thisweekin-mad-men/this-week-in-mad-men-26-are-you-alone/)</p>
<p>@Musicamusicia - Maybe Megan is going to be a Bond girl?</p>
<p>Does anyone know when the new season will start?</p>
<p>I’m still ruminating on this whole Joan-will-be-yesterday’s-model meme. Just not seeing it. Twiggy’s appeal is largely to women as a fashion icon.</p>
<p>Ask any man, if you could have a date with Marilyn Monroe or a date with Twiggy, which would you pick? </p>
<p>I don’t think the reaction to Joan in the male-dominated working world would change very much.</p>
<p>Lergnom, I love your interpretation and analysis of mad men. It’s the benchmark that I compare with other reviewers.</p>
<p>As a partner with responsibility for the firm’s finances and, perhaps now some contact with peers in other firms, Joan should no longer be depending on the reaction she gets from males in her current, er, format. (If she dresses more professionally, she’s also less likely to get propositioned by clients!) And perceptions do change with fashion. As the other women in the firm adopt the styles of the day, Joan will start to look more and more like their mother in her outdated attire. That may change the male reaction substantially, regardless of her curves.</p>
<p>I wonder if Joan really will change. I didn’t know quite what to make of the long look she gave Peggy as Peggy left the office for good. Was it envy? Sadness? Loss? Good riddance?</p>
<p>During the show’s current time period, I was in college. In one summer job that I had for two years, there was a high-level secretary who dressed just like Joan. The summer employees thought she was really cool–smart, funny, assertive, etc. If you wanted to get something done, you went to her. One day I opened the door to the xerox room and found her in a very compromising position with a male staff member. Today I feel bad that my perception of her shifted a bit after that. And that relationship was the #1 gossip topic among the college students in the office for the rest of the summer.</p>
<p>I guess I don’t see that Joan doesn’t dress professionally. Short of getting a breast reduction. Yes her dresses are form fitting but she doesn’t show cleavage or wear mini skirts. She would look ridiculous in the matronly suit that Peggy was wearing in her new office (which looked okay if a bit old for Peggy).</p>
<p>The year I graduated college we were told we would NOT be hired, anywhere, unless we wore a navy blue suit, navy pumps, and white blouse with a high neckline and a female version of a silk bow tie at the neck. Hilarious conformity as I look back.</p>
<p>^ I remember that in the early 80s. Those bows women wore with blouses! What was everyone thinking? Female version of a male tie.</p>
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<p>I was thinking the same thing, but I’m not aware of what the fashions were at the time. </p>
<p>When curvy women like Joan wear things that “neutralize” their curves, they look like their whole body is as wide as their widest point-- she’d look like an obese person wearing a circus tent.</p>
<p>@Snowdog - I bought that exact outfit in 1983 at Casual Corner to wear to internship interviews! One of my sorority sisters sold it to me. I have to confess, though, I actually liked the silk bow ties. I had several and wore them a lot.</p>
<p>As a guy, I liked the bow. They were, as I remember, a French influenced way of bringing the school girl look into work. I liked halter tops better. Before the internet, halter tops and mini skirts were a young man’s dream. Especially when you went to a boys’ school and girls were, at least to me, the great mystery.</p>
<p>I wonder if Peggy comes up with “You’ve come a long way, baby” for Virginia Slims. Think about the weirdness in that: she’d be successful, she’d have done the tobacco deal Don couldn’t and yet she’d be convincing hordes of young women (and girls) to damage their lives with cigarettes. Something to be proud/not proud of. That would really put the ambiguity of ad-making into focus. We saw a bit of that with Don’s great bit about Agent Orange: “when America needs it, Dow makes it”. That slides around the morality of its use by making it a national political decision. Can’t say that about cigarettes. Such dirty money. Is that where Peggy goes?</p>
<p>But the blouse buttoned to the neck and bow was a bit of a masculine look. I think businesswomen were imitating men a bit. My brother went to Paris around that time on business and came back commenting on how feminine the women dressed in the office. He was very surprised. There was a stark difference.</p>
<p>Shoulder pads out to here. 80’s had some bad clothing decisions. Much better for men at work then. Dark suit, bright tie, crisp white shirt, good shoes. Done.</p>
<p>The bow with the shirt buttoned up to the neck is Madeleine.</p>
<p>With a business suit (and yes with big shoulder pads) it looks masculine. I think that was the intention, wanting to be taken seriously in business world at the time.</p>
<p>Snow dog, I had a navy DVF suit, which I wore with white silk or lace blouse, no bowties ever! It was really cute. Back then, we lived in suits, pantsuits, and sweater sets were casual. Being short, I always cut out the shoulder pads.</p>
<p>Back on topic, I love Joan in her red dresses. She acts smart without being offensive.</p>
<p>Casual Corner, that was my go-to store for work suits! ha ha. I moved up to Jones New York (from long gone John Wanamaker store) when I got a promotion. Can’t see Joan in either brand…</p>
<p>And yes in 1982 (sorry Peggy, you may have come a long way baby but there will still be a long way to go), the dark suit, white shirt, yellow or red patterned bow tie was to look like men and be taken seriously. A failed approach in retrospect but that was the conventional wisdom at the time.</p>
<p>Raise your hand if you’re going through Mad Men withdrawl!</p>
<p>(((Waving enthusiastically)))</p>