<p>Note that for PhD programs, the reputation of one’s undergraduate school *in the major<a href=“not%20overall”>/i</a> is the important factor, as far as what undergraduate school choice influences.</p>
<p>if she gets 3.9 in Rutgers and a 3.3 average in Michigan, provide everything else being equal ( research and activities), will a selective school grad program take the Rutgers girl or the Michigan girl?</p>
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<p>Hahahaha. A 3.3 in engineering … especially at UM … would not prevent anyone - but particularly not a female … from getting into a selective school grad program.</p>
<p>I went to an engineering school, and getting a good gpa was TOUGH. Many of my friends went to grad school at excellent schools, particularly leaning toward MBAs at the very, very top schools. </p>
<p>I just checked U Mich Engineering “fact & figures”, mean undergraduate GPA for entering grad students is 3.7.</p>
<p><a href=“Facts & figures”>http://www.engin.umich.edu/college/about/facts</a></p>
<p>For PhD programs, I would say that GPA is probably more important than reputation of the school in a particular major. The most important factors for PhD programs are research fit with the department/professors in the department (as expressed in the statement of purpose), quality and level of research experience, and letters of recommendation. Grades, especially in upper-level major courses, are also important as they are predictive of success in coursework. But the letters don’t have to be from famous professors and what you do is far more important than where you go. None of the schools you mentioned in your OP would put your daughter at a significant disadvantage in PhD admissions.</p>
<p>How hard is it to switch to A&S from the Engineering School at Michigan? Some schools make it very difficult to transfer in and out of engineering. That would be a big factor for a kid who is not sure of what she wants to do.</p>
<p>In general I would not recommend locking in to a nursing program unless DD wants to be a nurse. There are many, many things you can do with a nursing degree, but they all generally require actually working as a nurse at the entry level. It is a very specific education, and if she is not sure she want to do traditional nursing for at least for some period of time it is probably not a good idea.</p>
<p>Engineering is tough, and a very structured academic path with courses that build on each other. If she thinks she might want to do engineering it makes sense to start with the math/physics prerequisites and the intro to engineering class that most schools use to help first-years figure out the flavor of engineering they want. She will likely know after that course if engineering is for her. If not, the pre-req courses are likely very applicable to other majors like applied math.</p>
<p>Many kids change their majors many times before settling in to one. If she is not sure what she wants to study the most important criteria would seem to be the flexibility to change her mind. Sounds like Rutgers offers the best option for that. And it would be free!</p>
<p>Rutgers engineering for a year or two then decide what to do - that is the way to go. UNLESS some magical happens by April 1 - other schools, other moneys. We already have a plan without any magical. Thank you all.
I looked at Rutgers sample schedule for BME majors. Calc I @ II, Gen Chem, Gen Physics I & II, Intro to Computers and Programming, and electives. Those should fit any math and science major well. </p>
<p>As I was typing the above paragraph, she texted me for a little miracle: she got a “likely letter” from Cornell. Now what we do? Depends on how much money we get, I guess. However, I am feeling a weight on me - all the students there are smart, competition is fierce, I am not sure how happy she will be there - it is not just an engineering program, it is a very tough engineering program. Good and bad things together: prestige with stress, Is it worth it? even with some financial aids? </p>
<p>Prestige with Stress sums it up. How is your daughter with stress? How does she do academically?
We were going over my DD’s college list and I asked her if there were any “reach” schools she was interested in. She said no because she didn’t want to be stressing out all the time. Other kids might love the challenge.</p>
<p>She wants to go with the strategy 1012mom suggested, go for one or two semesters, if too hard, transfer out. She gets good grades in high school - there was only one B (on US history II AP) for the three years of high school, rest are A’s ( A-'s included). But she is not a book worm, and never spends a lot of time studying. If there is a quicker way she will use the quicker way. That’s why I worry if she can survive there. I think it should be difficult for her because they must accepted girls at a lower standard. Like a double standard. However, when you take your tests there, There is one standard. She will be competing with boys who were stronger in those subjects to begin with. Many kids there are graduates from Math and Science specialty schools. They started Physics from 9th grade. How can our kids compete with them without studying day and night? </p>
<p>You might hear of the superstars going to college, but there are plenty of students who go to college that are not super advanced (perhaps precalculus or calculus AB as high school seniors, regular high school physics and chemistry, etc.).</p>
<p>Thanks Ucbalumnus, you are easing my mind. And thanks for all of your posting here, they are new to me and very helpful.
My daughter is just one of the regular students taking Calc AB this year.
Now can I ask you and others who obviously close to the academia:
- How much of the college calculus ( for math and engineering majors) that are depend on the teaching? ( I asked because my daughter frequently says this “ I didn’t learn anything from my calc teacher.” She is getting good grades because she reads the textbook and go over the problems before the tests by herself. Can you do the same in college?)</p>
<ol>
<li><p>How do the professors in college normally work with the TA’s for math and science courses? ( I asked because a Duke mom complained that her kid couldn’t understand what the TA says due to a heavy accent or something. I also know a CMU sophomore works as a TA grading math finals. Finals are weighted heavily, and you don’t get the paper back, how can you feel safe for another kid just a year older to give you final exam grades?) </p></li>
<li><p>And for the TA question, which school would depend more heavily on TAs to teach undergraduate kids, a state college , such as Rutgers, or a “highly selective” college such as Cornell? I know it would be case by case, but in general?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>My daughter did her undergrad in nursing and then went to law school. The opportunities she has before her are outstanding, a combination that is very much in demand. Don’t discount a BSN as there are many opportunities that are not traditional “nursing” jobs especially when paired with a grad degree.</p>
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<p>Student learn in a combination of three different ways:</p>
<p>a. From the instructor(s) (lecture/discussion).
b. From reading the book(s).
c. From doing the assignments, labs, projects, etc. (possibly with assistance from instructor(s)).</p>
<p>Quality of instructors and books do vary, but a student who can effectively learn in all of these ways can better adapt if the class is weak in one area (as she is doing despite a weak instructor).</p>
<p>The typical public or private research university will have most main lectures led by a faculty member, with smaller discussion sections led by PhD student TAs. Frosh/soph level lectures can be large, but junior/senior level classes will be smaller. LAC-model schools will have smaller faculty member led frosh/soph classes, but smaller selections of junior/senior level classes. You can check on-line class schedules and catalogs at various schools.</p>
<p>Faculty members may have accents as well, since colleges and universities hire faculty from around the world.</p>
<p>Thanks Ucbalumus.
A friend said often times most of the help come from TA’s, because the professors don’t have time to worry about the undergraduate kids. They want to concentrate on their research. TA’s need the job to make money so they try to do a good job to get good evaluations from undergraduate students. Professors have tenure, so…</p>
<p>One less noticed potential advantage of the faculty member lecture + TA discussions model is that a large class can have a large number of instructors (the faculty member and several TAs) to seek assistance from during their office hours (as long as one realizes that peak times are just before and after tests). However, many students do not make use of (any of) the instructors’ office hours (other than when cramming for the test or asking about their grade on the test), giving up any potential advantage here.</p>
<p>That’s right! More mature kids should know to take advantage of that.
That reminds me of my son when he was in freshman Calculus II. Professor led one class, TA’s led other classes. His was led by a TA. He did try to take advantage of the multiple TA situation and it helped. He went to office hour with another TA, and he/she helped him a lot.
(Funny thing was he made another appointment with his own TA after that. After he understood the material and waiting for the appointment of his own TA, he went to the library and did some problems to make sure he got it. When he sees his own TA, he was expecting a pat on the back, but no, the TA said," I went over all of that in class, you just got it now?" I guess TA was not happy with the fact that someone else helped him more.)
So I hope my daughter is mature enough to act early, and to take advantage of the helps she can get.</p>