Just heard this on the news today.
Coinky dinky? :-??
“The political establishment” or ruling party in the US and Wisconsin is the opposite of “PC culture” (unless you are saying that it and its leader are not racist enough). And they have plenty of cheerleaders in the media and social media.
I’m not sure this clarifies things, but here’s an interview with Jordan Blue.
Well, this changes things. If it is already something they see in school, they are aware of what they are doing.
The amount of excuse making in this thread astounds me.
“The other thing about this is these kids need to learn NOW about the power of social media”
There’s another side of social media that probably comes into play here. White Supremacists and neo-nazis are effectively using the internet to attract and groom young, white males like this. They lure them in and convert them. If you aren’t aware of this growing phenomena, I highly suggest you do some research. It is very scary because it has been effective. Basically, the white nationalist version of ISIS. Cyber-extremism comes in many forms.
On the most recent “48 Hours” primetime episode, the topic was the hate-crime murder of a young man in California.
It was horrifying. Much discussion of Nazi groups in the United States and an interview with one, possibly former, adherent of a particular group. I consider myself to be well informed, but I was shocked about what this group and presumably others are doing, online and in person. I’m not sure if you can watch the entire episode here: https://www.cbsnews.com/video/in-the-name-of-hate/.
I am glad the school has promised to investigate and take action.
There is NO reason these boys should not have realized the repercussions that came from their actions. I hope each and every one of them is named. There are teen antics and this isn’t one of them.
Our town, we don’t have many facts yet, thus the investigation.What we have is one participant stating that was the instruction, and the photographer disputing that. There were dozens present, plus various parents, teachers, and others, so it should be easy to investigate this matter and learn the facts
I respectively disagree @MYOS1634. Rebelling against PC Culture is provocative and dangerous. As @rickie1 noted, these 16 year old kids are going to get a very harsh lesson on stepping out of line in the social media era. This will likely affect their future college search and possibly their future job search.
Have you seen the type of things that have happened to people that publicly speak out against the PC Narrative?
The 1960s rebellion against the man was an effort to make the world a better place. It included young people working for civil rights. Some lost their lives.
I do not see the analogy.
ETA… are students leaving college to be Freedom Riders the same as students leaving college to march with neo-Nazis last year?
Our local elementary and middle schools have classes about the use of social media, for years and years, what is acceptable and what is not. A complete failure from the students to the parents to the educators and administrators.
I think I would have been the 1st person to say F-off to the photographer.
They get elected to political offices?
We also have the fact that the photographer took a photo of young men in Baraboo seemingly acting as if they were at a Hitler Youth rally. Not only did he take it-- there could be various innocent explanations for an unfortunate picture-- but he put it up on his website for sale, for months. I see no innocent explanation for his selling the photo, or for anyone involved buying it, if anyone did.
“Cyber conversion” into white nationalism uses EXACTLY the same mechanisms as ISIS. Both are a form of brain washing, diluting boundaries between acceptable and unacceptable, making certain speech patterns seem normative or righteous, then some gestures, then some actions, then violence becomes not just acceptable but necessary as a defense mechanism. Unfortunately I saw it happen to a young man.
A difference is that for white nationalism cyberconversion in teens, adults are somewhat aware and tend to minimize, find excuses, ignore context, and generally don’t “wake up and smell the coffee” until it’s too late, whereas for ISIS-type radicalization the youth are careful to hide from their parents (who are often the first to “denounce” their kids in order to stop them, because once kids are full of righteous anger they dismiss parents, teachers, and religious leaders as “being willingly blind to the truth”).
If anybody is interested in cyber brain washing, the film “Heaven will wait” is excellent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PgFiZwQdQM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkAG5WilU18
Books about brainwashing among boys in 1930s Germany:
I was there; Friedrich - two short novels by Hans Peter Richter
Among girls, a memoir by Ilse Koehn, Mischling: Second Degree.
A documentary book by Susan Campbell Bartoletti: Growing up in Hitler’s shadow
Defending white nationalism IS NOT “going against PC culture”. Also, nowadays, there’s nothing more common than “going against PC culture”. Just watch any TV channel, you’ll have someone proudly claiming they’re “going against PC culture”.
The kids who did this did not “step out of line” and what they did had nothing with “opposing PC culture”. This is a serious matter. White nationalism is a serious problem. It’s not being rebellious or “anti PC”.
According to the local news station I regularly watch, the photographer is the father of one of the young men in the picture. https://www.channel3000.com/news/photographer-wisconsin-boys-nazi-salute-photo-was-innocent-1/861485476
Yes, MYOS, that is why there is an investigation with promises of consequences for those involved. I don’t see anyone disputing that. It seems likely, based only on the photo, that there will be different levels of consequences for different kids based on culpability.
@rosered55 - Do you know what the photographer’s son, Matthew, did in that photo?
I think that understanding the underlying motivations of the people are important if we want a chance at influencing them, though. These are minors - there’s a possibility at least some of them can be positively influenced and that won’t happen if we publicly condemn them without first understanding what their role and thinking was.
If every single one of those boys is a closest neo-Nazi and loving the fact that they got to display that openly then that requires a different approach than if some of them are closet neo-Nazis and others were making a bad choice in a split second when being pressured by a closet neo-Nazi standing on either side of them. And if there are any in the group dumb enough not to understand the gesture at all, that requires yet another approach.
Getting back to my example of not knowing the OK sign was associated with white nationalists, if a few weeks ago someone took a picture of me publicly, openly and smilingly making that sign (I admit - I did that) and that picture went viral, labeling me a neo Nazi, I would be livid. It wouldn’t change whether I’m a neo-Nazi or not (I’m not, just an apparently out of touch person), but it would make me angry enough at what I would perceive to be judgy, reactive, PC warriors that I would be much less likely to listen to their future points because I personally knew them to be overreactive and willing to wrongly accuse people without seeking to understand the facts. On the other hand, if someone pulled me aside and explained the OK symbol thing, showed me some articles and discussed it with me - I’d be embarrassed and careful not to do it again. Still wouldn’t change whether I was a neo-Nazi but I’d be more willing to listen in the future rather than feeling wrongly judged and defensive.
If there are boys in this group that made a dumb choice but aren’t neo-Nazis, then we have a better chance at changing them, reaching them and making them allies if we don’t publicly condemn them without first investigating. There is obviously something going on here - and it’s wrong, but before we have the entire town written off as a neo-Nazi stronghold and alienate all the residents there, it might make sense to figure out how big the problem is, who believes and who might be reasonably convinced this is not the right thing.
Was there not a “non-nazi salute present” group photo taken that the photographer could have posted online? I can only guess why he chose to upload this one if he did not approve of it