<p>Hunt and oldfort win the thread.</p>
<p>That is a matter of opinion.</p>
<p>So is assuming sour grapes. That is CLASSIC ad hominem – impugning the motives of those with whom you disagree.</p>
<p>And lest I, too, be accused of sour grapes: I would not live in Manhattan, let alone send my kids to its private schools, if you paid me a million dollars. I am perfectly content living on our gorgeous wooded property ($1500/acre, BTW ;-)) in the NC Piedmont foothills, about an hour south of the Blue Ridge, thank you very much. And I’m thrilled that my Byzantinist DH was able to give our kids a superb education via our home-school classical curriculum.</p>
<p>We all make different choices. What works for me may not work for someone else. But the reverse is also true: Manhattan’s private preschools are not for everyone, and they certainly are not necessary to anyone’s future success.</p>
<p>And BTW, I can’t stand Applebee’s. :)</p>
<p>I grew up in Brooklyn some years ago. I then moved to Manhattan when I became a professional 25 years ago and then out of Manhattan to raise our children. Growing up, elite preschools/boarding schools were from a parallel universe. I didn’t know about them, and at the time they would have been seen as if from the land of Oz… beautiful but unreachable. And both my parents were NYC public school educators.</p>
<p>I see no problem with elite preschools or any other option a parent sees as best for their children. The vast majority of us want only what is best for our children. We do, of course, frequently have a need to provide them with what we feel we missed out on in our own childhoods.</p>
<p>I do, however, feel very unsettled by the whole issue of constant striving through what is essentially a series of hurdles… expensive, and really only available to the very brightest. I understand that this is the “natural” way of things. It is predictable that in a competitive environment with only a few spots at “the top”, that such intense competition should prevail. Still, to feel compelled to join this race to provide one’s child with the best advantages and the best life experiences feels sad to me.</p>
<p>LadyDianeski: It’s not really ad hominem, imo. It would be the case if we were disagreeing with arguments by stating that the person was wrong because of (insert personal attack/motive here), but that isn’t what’s happening here. People are disagreeing because the arguments put forth aren’t necessarily indicative of the reality/underlying evidence/statistics of things. Coupled with the attitude that underpins the arguments themselves, it’s not really unreasonable to assume attitudes/motives on top of it all. The “sour grapes” bit is not the main retaliatory argument but rather the side-observation.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>With the possible exception* of the very top ones in NYC/NE and the rest of the country, not necessarily. There are plenty of average/mediocre/crappy private schools all across the USA…including at least two I know of with far weaker academic requirements than even a standard NYC public HS. I don’t know how those schools got away with requiring only two years of science…and non-lab “rocks for jocks” type science courses at that or only 3 years of English or history/government for graduation requirements. My HS classmates and I were also shocked to find a surprising number of even top private school graduates who were tops of their class who then floundered or in some cases, even ended up on academic suspension/expulsion. We made plenty of extra money tutoring such kids during our undergrad careers. </p>
<p>I’d also recommend you google “Segregation Academies” which many White southerners still popularly perceive as academically better than public schools…even when local educational statistics and many local friends’ accounts have shown that they are usually no better and sometimes, worse academically than their public counterparts. </p>
<p>In fact, my Mississippi relatives bought into that very generalization that private is always better than public school…only to find out the vast majority of their local private schools to be no better than the public academically because of the legacy mentioned in the previous paragraph. Ended up wasting the equivalent of what I paid** for 3 years at my private LAC after the near-full ride is taken into account before they wised up and sent an older cousin to a top NE boarding school and other to a better local Catholic private. </p>
<ul>
<li>Also, what constitutes “better academics” depends on a given student’s interests. For instance, my younger cousin’s private all-girls upper-east side school would have been considered worse academically by most female HS classmates because they emphasized the arts and humanities to the perceived expense of STEM fields.<br></li>
</ul>
<p>** And yes, I paid the full cost of that remainder through part-time/summer work and taking out a tiny loan as my low-income parents weren’t able to cover any of my academic expenses back then.</p>
<p>I’m not saying that it’s always the case. But it’s generally the case. Privates are usually a lot smaller so there’s more individual attention – but a student with a great mind will do well at either a public or private. When in doubt (and when it’s affordable to do so), opt for the path of greater resources.</p>
<p>Actually, I strongly disagree and believe you have to do your due diligence. There are quite a few public schools that offer MUCH better education & opportunities than privates that are quite costly. You can’t know just by the pricetag & why throw away money? Privates cover a huge range–some excellent some quite substandard.</p>
<p>Certainly one has to do their due diligence, but I think it’d be demonstrably false to imply that, on average, publics are better than their private counterparts.</p>
<p>If you think one school is “better” for your particular kid, and you have the ability to send him there, you will do so. Whether public or private. Problem solved.</p>
<p>In cases where it seems a close call, most people here go public. Because, y’know, it’s a lot of money otherwise, there has to be a reason to spend it. That’s why proportionally more (but by no means all) people of means in the NYC suburbs with “good” school systems send their kids to the public schools. The schools are considered either good enough, or arguably even “better” in some cases, for some people, than the available privates there. And at the level of splitting hairs a greater proportion conclude it just isn’t worth the money.</p>
<p>In actuality, the private schools my family attended, both in NYC and in the midwest, were “better” than the suburban public schools my kids attended (at other times). But for the last two kids, at some point we no longer had that kind of discretionary money, and those public schools were good enough.</p>
<p>Why were they better? smaller classes, more tailoring to your kids’ ability and progress level, classmates of more homogeneous academic capabilities and closer to your own level so class moves accordingly, etc.</p>
<p>“That’s why proportionally more (but by no means all) people of means in the NYC suburbs with “good” school systems send their kids to the public schools. The schools are considered either good enough, or arguably even “better” in some cases, for some people, than the available privates there. And at the level of splitting hairs a greater proportion conclude it just isn’t worth the money.”</p>
<p>^^^ Even when it’s not “a close call,” people of means choose private. In NYC, the good public schools are often in the same affluent neighborhoods with highest concentration of expensive private schools. The private schools are so popular that the public schools - - even at the elem level where kids ordinarily attend zoned/neighborhood schools - - enroll many out-of-catchman students.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>lol
10char</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Exactly…especially after knowing some who/whose children experienced attending some very substandard privates which makes even an average/mediocre NYC public high school look like a paragon of academic excellence. Heck…one of those Mississippi cousins said as much when he compared NYC’s public education system with his local public and private schools. </p>
<p>My Mississippi cousins’ parents squandered quite a bit of money on those substandard privates before wising up after a year. Also, the classmate who attended a private school with the joke science requirements ended up struggling to complete the science and quantitative proficiency requirements at my LAC. Requirements that weren’t considered particularly difficult by most NYC public school graduates at my LAC…including those who attended the equivalents of Seward Park High as fondly cited by monydad.</p>
<p>cobrat, again I refer to confirmation bias. I feel like you’re unfairly picking out a few crappy private schools and saying “Look at how great they make even the mediocre public schools appear” as if it’s the general rule. You can’t ignore the numerous private counterparts that are arguably better than the publics. Nobody’s saying that you won’t be able to find able kids from crappy public schools (I consider myself one of them) or floundering private-school students. </p>
<p>The question is ultimately “What is the real price we should be willing to pay for a particular standard of education” given a selection of choices. Is it really worth sending your child to a $20,000 preschool – something that comes at nearly half the price tag of a year at an Ivy? Or should we opt for the public counterparts?</p>
<p>Ultimately it IS a function of due diligence. You just have to do your research and you have to make the best judgment call you can given the type of lifestyle you lead, the type of family you wish to have, the education you want your kids to have, the opportunities you think are important, etc. </p>
<p>Certainly, you can’t toss a lazy, unintelligent kid into a gauntlet of expensive private schools and expect him to be made a better person. That’s where good parenting comes in. But if you can afford the price tag and you find the benefits to be worth the price, why not send your kids there?</p>
<p>is this a ****ing joke? jesus christ.</p>
<p>Is what a joke oh one whose screen name screeches “■■■■■”?</p>
<p>I assure you everyone here in the Parents Forum is deadly dam serious about doing what is best for their children.</p>
<p>We just don’t always know and sometimes don’t agree on what that is.</p>
<p>Gah, I knew I should have taken AP CompSci back in kindergarten!</p>
<p>You are going to a top prep school so you still have a chance at an almost fulfilling existence.:)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>But “on average” is irrelevant to any given student. If I’m sitting here in affluent suburbia, the fact that there are crappy public schools 25 miles away in the big city is certainly a crying shame, but not relevant to whether I should send my kids to the public school or the private school down the road.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Because not all private schools are necessarily better than the local publics depending on a given area. Uncritically thinking that private schools are always better than public schools was what got my Mississippi relatives in trouble with their kids…and cost them far more than what I paid for 3 years of tuition at my LAC after the near-full ride scholarship was accounted for. </p>
<p>More importantly, not all students will necessarily derive much benefit from a private school education. </p>
<p>Several HS classmates who opted out of their private schools for my public magnet have confirmed as much from recounting their private school experiences. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You can certainly say that again! All schools, whether public or private, can provide is an educational opportunity. The rest of it is mainly the responsibility of the student. </p>
<p>If said student is lazy, disinterested, and/or lacking the intellectual capability to keep up, one can argue that a private school education is a big waste. Especially when one considers many private school tuition are high enough to rival those of elite private universities/LACs.</p>
<p>There are a lot of private schools in the US, obviously they are providing certain service that people are looking for. It would be hard for me to believe there are that many people who would be willing to pay that kind of money if they didn´t feel like they were getting their money´s worth.</p>