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<p>It shows that they met. It doesn’t imply that Z was following T. My understanding is that the altercation happened 35 yards from his car. I believe that there was a verbal altercation before the physical altercation.</p>
<p>I found the story! So proud of myself for remembering. (Yahoo links are okay, right?)</p>
<p>[George</a> Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting - Yahoo! News](<a href=“http://news.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-prelude-shooting-194235114.html]George”>http://news.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-prelude-shooting-194235114.html)</p>
<p>Fire away folks!</p>
<p>Well that link explains his suspicious outlook on people - he investigates insurance fraud for a living, and he’s studying criminal justice.</p>
<p>Been thinking about an incident from many years ago, and how gun ownership would have changed the outcome:</p>
<p>In the mid 1980’s we lived in a three story walk up apartment building in a large apartmant complex. Each entrance had 12 apartments and a shared laundry room. The outside doors were not secure…no locks, no security cameras, no security personnel on the grounds. Our group of 12 apartments housed mostly young married law and medical students, and families with young kids. We were all good friends.</p>
<p>For a couple of months one spring one young woman who lived in our entryway was the target of a peeping Tom/stalker. First floor apartment, somone looking in her windows after dark, stealing her underwear out of the laundry room, etc. The police were aware of the ongoing situation, had taken reports, but of course couldn’t ever arrive in time to catch the guy in action.</p>
<p>Everyone was on edge, to say the least. </p>
<p>The end of MY story was fine: six of the young men in our entryway chased and tackled the peeper one evening when they caught him in action. The police were called, the guy was charged and convicted. </p>
<p>The end of that story, had ANYONE been carrying a gun… It makes me sick to my stomach to imagine.</p>
<p>By the same token, if Martin had instead turned out to be say, “Travis Morton,” a 23-year-old serial rapist and pedophile, would we be having this conversation? Zimmerman would be the town hero.</p>
<p>BC - these are news stories - this is the reporter interpreting what the police officer said Z said. These are not Z’s exact words.</p>
<p>News articles are far from exact when getting 2nd and 3rd hand information. There have been articles that say that Z said that TM was covering his mouth during the event. Well that would make it kinda hard for Z to be screaming help. And when your covering someone’s mouth - you are obviously not punching him.</p>
<p>There are also articles that state that sources say that Z said TM was circling his truck - yet Z never mentioned that to the 911 operator. You would think that may be an important bit of information to give the 911 operator. They say he stated he was very scared. However, he wasn’t scared enough to get out of the car to start chasing TM.</p>
<p>Who knows if these statements attributed to Z are true or not. We will not know until all the official statements are released.</p>
<p>Dershowitz says drop the charges against Zimmerman. I guess he is not worried about winning any friends.</p>
<p>[Drop</a> George Zimmerman?s murder charge - NY Daily News](<a href=“Opinion - New York Daily News”>Drop George Zimmerman’s murder charge )</p>
<p>Well, as the Duke case showed, you have to take news articles with a grain of salt. That’s why I provided an attribution - you can decide whether or not you want to believe it.</p>
<p>I do not know if the police interviews will be released. These usually aren’t shown in big cases - just testimony from witnesses. Is there a law that prevents them from being shown?</p>
<p>
Yep- that’s what Zimmerman was thinking, all right.</p>
<p>But Trayvon Martin ends up dead.</p>
<p>Because Zimmerman had a gun.</p>
<p>That’s how it works in the real world.</p>
<p>If you beat someone up in this country, you take your chances at being shot to death in self defense.</p>
<p>I guess TM wasn’t given the same right. Getting chased and harrassed by a strange man. I guess TM didn’t have the same right to stand his ground. If some guy I pass in a car is suddenly following me and then chasing me - I’m going to be scared sh_t and yes I might try and beat him up if an altercation takes place.</p>
<p>We have NO IDEA how the two met up. Z could have easily started it and then TM was just defending himself.</p>
<p>If I took a guy out with a punch to the nose, I’d just run - especially when home was a short distance away. Especially since I knew that I could outrun him. And I didn’t know whether or not he had friends around. I think that I would have called 911 too - he had a headset and was talking to his girlfriend and had multi-line capability as he took a call from someone else while he was on the phone with her.</p>
<p>If someone asked me what I was doing here, I’d say that I live here.</p>
<p>As the police said, Zimmerman should have identified himself. Perhaps Martin should have too.</p>
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<p>Maybe knocking someone to the ground is defending yourself. Sitting on top of them and hitting them surely isn’t.</p>
<p>To at least a certain extent, the media has railroaded Zimmerman.</p>
<p>For days, they showed a picture every two seconds on TV of a cute little middle schooler who went out to buy skittles, and was shot. Only much later was it disclosed that the person shot was 6 feet tall. And that he was not the idyllic angel in the picture, but in fact, had recently been suspended from school, and mysteriously had valuable jewelry in his possession.</p>
<p>Also, even though Zimmerman clearly had injuries, the press immediately started speculating that these injuries were somehow fake. Now, we know they were real.</p>
<p>Also, Zimmerman was immediately labeled as a racist by the media, but later, it turned out that his black neighbors say that he was a great guy, and it also turned out that Zimmerman had in the past organized a community protest in support of some black person who had been wronged.</p>
<p>The media also reported that a tape showed Zimmerman had used the word “coon”, but this was later disproved.</p>
<p>ABC also doctored a tape they played on the air, to make Zimmerman sound racist.</p>
<p>What probably happened was that Martin challenged Zimmerman as to why he was following him, and that the two started fighting. And Martin was bashing Zimmerman’s head against the concrete.</p>
<p>True, if Zimmerman had simply done what the police had told him to do, Martin would still be alive. But this doesn’t mean that Zimmerman should be convicted of murder. Perhaps manslaughter.</p>
<p>seems strange to me how much of Z’s story is simply being accepted as fact. </p>
<p>clearly none of us know what actually occurred, but when you make statements like “if you beat someone up in this country you may get killed” it seems just wrong. We are hearing Trayvon had thc in his system, however there was not even a drug screen done on Z. even if you believe every word Z says, why does that also include this blaming of Trayvon, who we do know was NOT a criminal trespassing, but a teen returning to his Dad’s apartment. in other words, you can defend Z for what you perceive to be a killing in self defense, but why also malign Trayvon? why not recognize that even if Z truly believed his life was in danger and felt he had to defend himself isn’t it still a tragic loss of a young man? why make statements about Trayvon’s behavior? life is not black and white. you can defend Z while recognizing this was a tragedy that should not have happened.</p>
<p>parent 1986</p>
<p>I am not a gun owner, but your comment that anyone who carries a concealed weapon is a vigilante is way overstated.</p>
<p>I will give you an example. A few days ago, it was reported in the newspaper that after a baseball game at Marlins stadium in Miami, there was a massive traffic jam, and one of the Marlins players, and his wife, were stuck in the jam. All of a sudden an armed man started walking between the cars, fleeing the police. The Marlins player says that the armed man looked him right in the eye.</p>
<p>If you were in that situation, you would be happy if you had a gun in your glove compartment.</p>
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<p>I would agree.</p>
<p>I believe that this is done as a response to those that malign Zimmerman.</p>
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<p>Not after you learn that 5-6% of murders (2 per day) are caused by fists or feet.</p>
<p>[George</a> Zimmerman claims he was fighting for his life. How deadly is an unarmed teenager? - Slate Magazine](<a href=“http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/05/george_zimmerman_claims_he_was_fighting_for_his_life_how_deadly_is_an_unarmed_teenager_.html]George”>George Zimmerman claims he was fighting for his life. How deadly is an unarmed teenager?)</p>
<p>From the article:</p>
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</p>
<p>Bay–my comment was related to what seemed to be the blaming of Trayvon as the instigator of the fight, as well as the apparent acceptance that if you beat someone up you “deserve” to be killed. I don’t know if those were your points. Perhaps I misinterpreted your intent. But your demonstrating that it’s possible to kill with one’s fists doesn’t respond to that point. It also ignores the fact that Z initiated the whole interaction by following Trayvon. no matter who started the actual fist fight, it occurred because Z suspected Trayvon of being a criminal and went after him on foot because of his perceptions.</p>
<p>Trayvon was shot in the heart, from 1-18" distance. was there truly no other alternative?</p>
<p>lindz,
My statement was a rhetorical one, not directed at Trayvon per se.</p>
<p>If you choose to beat someone up, I do believe that you assume the risk of being killed in self-defense, because punching someone in the face and head can and does kill. It is a fact.</p>
<p>If everyone on this thread agreed that Z was at fault, there would be no point to this thread. I prefer to take the position that he is innocent until proven guilty. To me, a man who wanted to stalk and murder someone in cold blood would not call the police to let them know about it before and while it was happening. It is not logical. But it could be true. I am withholding judgment, but I am skeptical.</p>
<p>It just makes no sense to me that TM after trying to run away from Z would now be the one confronting Z. He could have done that as soon as Z got out of his car and starting walking after him. TM could have turned around and confronted Z. But TM ran. He was frightened by this stranger. Now people seem to believe that TM would all of a sudden confront Z. Makes no sense to me.</p>