<p>To all, I am not denying that the illegality of pot is main reason to stay away from it. Arguments about legalizing it are a whole different story. It is, in fact, ILLEGAL right now, and you can get into a lot of trouble, expense, time spent, for just being in the same room with the stuff. IF and when it is legalized, we can discuss which is worse, alcohol or pot. Right now, let’s deal with what’s at hand. We all know that There are things that are perfectly legal that are dangerous if abused. We all know that alcohol is one of them. There are even things that are legal that are dangerous if USED, not even abused. I am discussing what IS, not what should be. You aren’t going to be making much of a difference in getting pot legalized just casually using it. There are organizations that are actively seeking this. ANd it would not help the cause if everyone in those organizations is a convicted pot user.</p>
<p>Just because alcohol is accepted doesn’t make it better. It just means that we’ve accepted it. It’s logically fallacious to argue that history should trump facts: alcohol can be pretty bad for you. So can marijuana. But one is legal, the other is not.</p>
<p>But let’s try a different view for a second. Would you rather see your child taking vicodin every once in a while or marijuana?</p>
<p>Our society has such an odd and narrow view of how to deal with drugs, including alcohol that it’s no wonder that we have so much trouble dealing with addicts.</p>
<p>What I’m saying is that too often people demonize the drug because it’s illegal, rather than for its effects. We’re so willing to jump in front of the logic train for wine and beer, cigars and cigarettes, but we can’t imagine a world where marijuana might be treated as just another drug to be properly regulated.</p>
<p>Laws should not be obeyed for the sake of obeying laws. Laws should be obeyed because they make sense.</p>
<p>ULAri, some laws should be obeyed for the sake of obeying laws. Often laws are made for reasons that we cannot in an instant understand. Unless a law is outright wrong or hurtful, it should be obeyed. Laws that fall in that category should be repealed and there are processes to do that. You are on a very slippery slope with that last sentence of yours. Many laws do not make sense to many people and if that is a defense for breaking the law, we would have chaos.</p>
<p>Vicodin is a legal substance when prescribed for certain conditions. There are many drugs, legal drugs that I would never want to see my child or anyone have to take. I have a kid who was on 13 different very dangerous drugs at the same time, and I had to pray that they worked without killing him. Sure, I would rather have seen him on marijuana (which he probably could have had too if we thought it would help) in that situation. Are you asking me which drug I prefer he should abuse? I really don’t know the answer to that one, since it seems to me a choice of the devil or the deep blue sea, you can lose him either way. Would I prefer that he was abusing alcohol or pot? Again, I don’t know. I don’t think I can put a preference order on that. </p>
<p>I would not go so far to say that I can’t imagine a world where marijuana might be treated as a drug to be properlay regulated. Sure, I can. In fact, I’m all for legalizing it for medicinal purposes. In fact many of those who most oppose legalizing pot can imagine it legal, and they don’t like what they see. Difference of opinion here, and you side loses. Pot is illegal.</p>
<p>I still don’t see why you keep comparing alcohol with marijuana. Why not marijuana with cigarettes? Some of the worst features of smoking pot are those things we are fighting with cigarettes. Too much alcohol can be bad for you, but a little bit once in a while can be quite beneficial health wise. I don’t advocate over indulging in anything. With alcohol you can immediately feel and see when you have gone over the top. </p>
<p>What it really comes down to is that we don’t think the trouble we need to go through to legalize and regulate pot is worth it. We felt that alcohol was. Maybe that will change in the future, but right now, no go. You lose. Pot is illegal. Alcohol is not. Maybe the history of ambience and well being that is part of many pot smokers and former pot smokers will weigh in heavily enough that they will insist we legalize. For some reason, I don’t think so. Not in the next 20 years, anyways.</p>
<p>Well, remember that Prohibition wasn’t reversed because people changed their minds about the morality of drinking alcohol; it happened because Prohibition was a disaster, with large segments of society simply ignoring the law. It wasn’t that people decided that relegalizing alcohol was “worth it” because of the benefits of alcohol, but rather that Prohibition itself wasn’t worth the problems caused by outlawing something so many people were going to do anyway. In my opinion, we’ve reached that point with marijuana in this country.</p>
<p>My father laid it on the line with me: “If I ever find out that you are doing any drugs, including pot, I will personally turn you in.” And he meant it. Enough to stop me from ever experimenting any illegal drug. I told my DD the same thing. And she, on her own, picked substance free dorm. I am not saying that this will work with your son, it may not. But it certainly worked for 2 generations of this family!</p>
<p>The comparison to the health problems arising from smoking cigarettes seems to me to be a somewhat misleading analogy. I don’t know too many people who smoke a pack of joints a day.</p>
<p>Hunt, you must run in a different crowd from mine. I don’t think we’ve come close to reaching this point, and I run with folks that have felt they needed pot for medicinal purposes. We socialize a lot with many different groups, and I have a very big open house. No pot here. Maybe they all go off to their private corner and smoke their toke. I see all sorts of drug abuse, by the way, and alcohol abuse too. But I don’t see hoards of people wanting to use pot. Like I said, we’re trying to get rid of smoking around here, not add more to smoke.</p>
<p>No, Donna, you don’t. The cost, availability, and risks of smoking a pack of joints a day make it difficult to do. If you have to buy and carry around that much pot, you are truly asking for trouble. Also if you have to smoke that much pot, you are not going to be able to do much else. IT’s not like you can openly smoke it in the smoking room these days. If it’s legalized and the price, availablilty, etc change, that could be a whole different story.</p>
<p>If nothing else tell him to stay away from San Diego State… See where pot got these kids…</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/505794-nearly-100-students-san-diego-state-arrested-drug-bust.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/505794-nearly-100-students-san-diego-state-arrested-drug-bust.html</a></p>
<p>Just because a small minority of students got busted on drug charges doesn’t damn the rest of the school.</p>
<p>I’m just curious. For those posters that are pro legalizing marajuana…would you feel the same if you had a kid who messed up their life based on this so called harmless substance? I realize many of you support marajuana only in moderation, but I’m wondering if you realize that many people are born with an addiction trait and once they smoke pot a few times, it snowballs from there…</p>
<p>I’m just curious. For those posters that are pro legalizing marajuana…would you feel the same if you had a kid who messed up their life based on this so called harmless substance? I realize many of you support marajuana only in moderation, but I’m wondering if you realize that many people are born with an addiction trait and once they smoke pot a few times, it snowballs from there…</p>
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<p>You are very wrong here. It is very easy to understand why the marijuana laws were made, and it is as simple as looking at the personal campaign of one Harry J. Anslinger, whose outright lies, embellishments of fact and very overt calling upon racism tricked an entire nation into demonizing marijuana.</p>
<p>In any case, you noted the exception “Unless a law is outright wrong or hurtful” - and I contend that the marijuana law is outright wrong, both as an unconstitutional overstepping of the powers of the Federal government, and as a matter of public policy and freedom. Therefore, I do not consider it a law with moral legitimacy or force.</p>
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<p>Yes, why don’t we compare with tobacco:</p>
<p>Tobacco:
Extremely physically and psychologically addictive.
Causes COPD, emphysema, chronic bronchitis, cancers of the lungs, esophagus, larynx, pharynx, mouth, pancreas, stomach… and so forth.
Permanently changes the neurochemical makeup of heavy users.
Causes significant cardiovascular disease.</p>
<p>Marijuana:
Mildly psychologically addictive.
Has not been proven to cause any cancers or any chronic lung disease - some studies have shown an increase, but the largest so far (the UCLA study) showed no increase.
Changes neurochemical makeup to an extent, with attendant decreases in Executive function and over a long period of chronic use (sorry for the pun, haha), short term memory.
Can cause psychosis in people predisposed to such illness.</p>
<p>Looks to me like marijuana is less harmful than tobacco by far. Which is legal, again?</p>
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<p>No, what it comes down to is that alcohol has been socially accepted to the extent that a number of people are unaware of just how dangerous a substance is. And pot has been so roundly demonized that its dangers are blown so far out of proportion that even cursory critical examination reveals the utter falsehood of the official position on marijuana. Yet few people are capable or willing enough to undertake the critical research necessary to show that marijuana truly is relatively innocuous, and the inundation of mass media with messages of horrible danger keeps much of the population ignorant and afraid of the horrible consequences of legalizing even medical marijuana.</p>
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<p>Could it be because UCLAri and your son share the characteristic of being able to look at this issue with a critically and logically, without using emotion as a justification?</p>
<p>Nonetheless, while I don’t think America will necessarily legalize soon, I think that increasing grassroots pressure will begin to turn the tide, and that the probably impending success of the legalization movement in Canada will hasten the process in America considerably.</p>
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<p>Yes, just like having a kid who got addicted to alcohol, cigarettes or video games would not have me running around campaigning for those things to be banned. That one person cannot handle using a substance is no good reason to ban it for another, in my opinion.</p>
<p>Are you suggesting otherwise?</p>
<p>1of42, I agree with you that alcohol and tobacco have been socially accepted. That makes it very difficult to make them illegal. Marijuana for whatever reason has not. I don’t think we need another leisure smoking drug, however. We are trying to get rid of the danged tobacco. Why on earth is it so important to make pot legal? It’s not as though it is harmless. That it is less dangerous than a drug that we have socially accepted and have been trying to curb, is no good reason in my book. Why on earth would you want to legalize the danged stuff? You are not going to put the drug pushers out of business that way. They’ll just move on to other stuff, and heck, they still sell contraband cigarettes. So what’s the big push? So many other things that are more important to change in terms of law. You want to legalize a substance that is smoked, that you don’t want around kids, people with lung issues, immune system issues, that may have psyc issues. That can jeopardize driving and other such activities so we’ll then have to come up with a scale as to how much is acceptable. All of that for this weed? Not interested. Have a glass of wine.</p>
<p>Uh, what you consider a law and what the courts consider are two very different things. There are many more useful substances that are illegal except under strict prescription oversight. If you truly feel that this illegal substance is worth supporting, go for it and enjoy. Just don’t expect your employers, the judge, the cops to join you in your sentiments.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse,</p>
<p>You push alcohol as if it’s somehow BETTER physiologically than marijuana. It’s not. It’s just as damaging to the body, and has much more addictive effects. </p>
<p>The point I think many of us are making is that marijuana, in and of itself, is not nearly as harmful as people make it out to be. It’s our social mores that have made it taboo. I do not do marijuana, never have, and probably never will. But just because it is illegal doesn’t necessarily make it WRONG. Illegality is not necessarily immorality.</p>
<p>I guess I am pushing alcohol on this post which is pretty far from how I feel. I only drink wines with meals and sparklings for toasting. Very much a very light drinker. Don’t like drinking for the sake of drinking, not even the old cocktail as an ice breaker. So please do not get the idea that I am pushing the alcohol on all of you. I agree fully that alcohol can be a huge problem, is a huge problem for many. Just as many other things that you can freely buy and consume. And I agree that it is accepted socially. Do you think it should be made illegal? I don’t. For the record, I think alcohol can and does have its role in our society, and though abuse is very dangerous, is not a substance we should ban. I do not serve it to those underage, nor do I condone its use by those underage despite that fact that I do not think the 21 rule makes that much sense. </p>
<p>The whole point of this thread, however, is not why marijuana should be legalized. I think we want to point out why it should be avoided. That it is illegal is not a small point. Illegality does not necessarily mean immorality, but if you get caught, arrested, jailed for pot usage, sale, you are going to be considered an immoral person by many. I am talking about employers, educators, lenders, parents, etc. You sure as heck will be treated as though you did something WRONG, very wrong. The young person I know who did time for pot, is a pariah of sorts. No more fin aid, kicked out of her college, uncertainty about a law career that she wanted, and not exactly welcomed in some households who heard about what happened to her. She would probably suffer less having done some immoral thing that was not illegal. So in terms of what to tell college kids about pot; well, I think they know how harmful it is on the body and mind. They seem to forget how harmful it can be in other ways, like getting caught with it. It’s easy to forget that when you are in an environment where it is used so commonly and casually. Whether it is the illegal status that makes it dangerous, is irrelevant since that is not going to change anytime soon. Right now you really don’t know what you are getting when you buy that pot, who you are buying from, and where it came from. Not like buying a wine from a store at all. Whole different story. The illegality makes all of the difference in the world.</p>
<p><<the illegality=“” makes=“” all=“” of=“” the=“” difference=“” in=“” world.=“”>></the></p>
<p>but the reason for the illegality makes even less sense than the law itself. </p>
<p>If we made laws for health and morality reasons, alcohol and tobacco would be banned.</p>
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<p>I didn’t comment on the school. Just telling his parents that yes, smart kids (well at least allegedly smart, as they are students at SDSU) do stupid things when dealing with pot and end up getting in trouble. Says nothing about the school except that the law enforcement in the area does its job.</p>
<p>The OP’s question was how to address marijuana usage to a high school student. I think a high schooler who is using pot and enjoying it well certainly feels that the law is not right in this regard. No sense even arguing that one with him, because it is unlikely he will change his mind, anymore than any of you who feel that marijuana laws are wrong. However, the implications that it is illegal are serious, and that is something he might need spelled out. </p>
<p>Most highschools are not at all indulgent about pot users. He can get kicked out and that can really be a problem. The legal ramifications are painful and expensive even if he ends up getting off. I don’t think most kids have any idea what train you take when you get into the criminal courts, or how much criminal attorneys cost. Nor do they understand how it works. Going to court for months at a time is not fun. Nor is going to substance abuse counseling which will surely be required. On top of that is the risk of jail, a criminal record, a blotch on the school record. You may not be able to get financial aid, and some jobs will be closed to you. I think that is an awfully big risk for a teenager to take.</p>
<p>Though the risks are still there, college is more of a safe haven for pot use. Most police stay clear of the campuses unless there is some big time deal brewing, and with caution, the chances of getting into trouble are much less. But still, if you start buying, sharing, selling, storing and transporting, you are upping the ante for trouble considerably.</p>
<p>I am concerned why a kid in high school finds pot so attractive that he does not want to lay off despite his parents admonitions and consequences and the potential trouble that he can get if he continues to use the stuff. Forget the physical/mental risks. I am talking about very possible consequences that can really make his life and his family’s a hell if he is caught. Is it that attractive to him? Is it worth all of that? </p>
<p>I’ve been pretty clear that I do not advocate smoking pot, nor am I on the legalize marijuana wagon. However, the main problem with pot are the legal consequences. THe fact that it is illegal is a big, big problem. Whether the law is an ass in this regard, does not change the legality or the consequences and grief that result in getting caught with it. You would not get far in court with sentiments of how wrong you think this law is, and if you want to pursue that avenue, you are really willing to give to this cause. Give your time and freedom.</p>
<p>I am also dead set against smoking of any kind. In our family,it is a very stupid thing to do, given our lungs and history with cancer. So I do not choose to spend any of my money on cigarettes or any smoking stuff. Families who have kids buying pot, can take curtail some of that by stopping the money flow. Why invest in what you hate, that can only bring you grief? It won’t cut all of it out since kids like to share the stuff, but it does make it a bit more difficult. Not to mention stifling other activities that cost money and financial freedom. </p>
<p>I think a counselor that can go into the question of why this kid wants to use pot so much when there is so much to risk, and it upsets his loved ones so much is in order, not one that just throws his hands up and says it’s his right to do so. If you take that line of thought, he can do any number of illegal things that can get him in jail, and it’s all right and his right.</p>