<p>It most certainly can be proven, because I’m not questioning Luther’s status now. I don’t care where he is. I care that you said people believe something with no evidence that they do. Either people believe something, or they do not. This is how we know how many Republicans there are, how many Buddhists there are, etc.</p>
<p>The problem I have with the statement is this:</p>
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<p>Who, exactly, thinks this? Give me anyone who believes that it was the excommunication that was responsible.</p>
<p>I’m not the one with the 'getting it" problem. Where Luther is now is where he went when he died. If he lost eternal salvation, he isn’t in heaven. And I never mentioned where he is now. You assumed that one all on your own.</p>
<p>I never claimed that you said anything about where he went. I claimed only one thing. That you said the following:</p>
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<p>Did you not say those exact words in the OP?</p>
<p>If you did, prove that that statement is true. Give me a quotation from someone who believes that. </p>
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<p>I’m saying it’s not true; you are saying it is. I am not going to do your job for you – you made the claim that some persons believe X, now prove that they in fact do believe X.</p>
<p>I am still waiting for you to prove the statement I quoted above. Until you can establish that some people in fact believe that Martin lost salvation because he was excommunicated, we can’t even begin to discuss where he is right now.</p>
<p>Here’s what it comes down to, Baelor. You don’t think Luther lost his eternal salvation because of his excommunication. You think he lost his eternal salvation due to the mortal sin he commited to get excommunicated. The mortal sin he commited in the eyes of the Catholic church was simply a questioning of the path the Catholic church was heading and the theology it was professing at the time. It was more of a difference of opinion than anything. And the last time I checked, a difference of opinion isn’t a sin.</p>
<p>We don’t know that Luther lost eternal salvation. You claim my statement isn’t true but you have no proof to the contrary.</p>
<p>^It makes no difference who believes this. You are stuck on this and refuse to move on. I guessing because you have nowhere to go and this is your excuse.</p>
<p>^It makes no difference who believes this. It can’t be proven. You are stuck on this and refuse to move on. I guessing because you have nowhere to go and this is your excuse.</p>
<p>Wow. Baelor and BalconyBoy: I am embarrassed for both of you. Do you have any idea how childish and ridiculous you both sound? And you are debating “issues” purportedly to do with salvation and “mortal sin”???</p>
<p>It’s fine to debate issues. In fact, I think it’s healthy in developing one’s own sense of what is true in their own faith. But it’s not fine, in my never-to-be-humble opinion, to belittle each other in the process. I don’t really care how you treat each other in some private exchange, but to sound and this way on a public forum where it’s likely that those who might be questioning ideas of faith is just wrong. Because I would venture to guess that anyone in that position who reads all of this would just be happy not to ever be associated with any group of people who acted so childishly when debating ideas.</p>