Match - Add to list for Merit Seeking PPE major [4.0 UW GPA, 35 ACT]

Chance Me / Match Me
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Looking for additional ideas to add to D27’s list.

Stats
U.S. Citizen, Mountain West area resident, 4.0 uw GPA, on track for I.B. diploma, 35 ACT, good E.C.s (Theatre, Speech (1st in State, natl qualifier), volunteering, etc.) Public high school. Lots of AP and IB classes (2 APs in 9th, 4 APs in 10th, 6 I.B.s in 11th, will have 6 I.B. and 1 AP in Sr. year).

Desired School Characteristics:

Small/Med: 1,800-8,000 students. Will get $0 in need-based aid, so looking for schools with good merit. Would like to stay under $60k or $65k. Definitely does not want anything conservative, too Greek, or too preppy. Doesn’t like So. Cal., very unlikely to apply to the South, prefers blue states or very blue areas in purple states. Won’t consider states with draconian abortion laws (Texas, Tenn, Missouri, etc.)

Schools on List So Far:

St Olaf
William and Mary
Mount Holyoke
Oberlin (OH is a concern, so might remove)
Brandeis
Maybe:
Colorado College
Smith
Denison
University of Puget Sound (too small)
Gonzaga (maybe too conservative)
Lewis and Clark (probably too small)
University of Richmond (maybe - probably too preppy)
Santa Clara (maybe - didn’t like culture)
Claremont McKenna (So. Cal, and very unlikely to reach $ goal, but might apply anyway)

Schools she’s visited and won’t apply to, even though they conceptually fit some requirements):
Macalester (campus too small), Washington & Lee (too Greek), Lawrence (hated it).

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Are we doing this again?? :slight_smile: Can’t she just go to St. Olaf and be done?? I was thinking Pitt but then I saw the size. Few colleges offer the formal major - so you might have them all. Then it’s a question of getting them under $60K. Some of these put merit on the aid calculator.

Sadly only NAU is WUE - and that’s too big.

This isn’t realistic but Bridgewater State in Mass has the major and is 7,950 undergrads.

Is NC in play? If so, Elon and Davidson.

Eastern Oregon is 2500 kids - not sure about the school - never heard of it - major didn’t pop on WUE list for major but it is a WUE school.

SUNY Geneseo will 100% be an admit and well under budget…by a lot.

W Wash is WUE - you’ll say too big but it is mid size so putting out there because will hit cost.

U Rochester - don’t see on your list. Has merit.

Is S Carolina out? My daughter’s school - College of Charleston (blue city) has two concentrations in Poli Sci:

The school is mid 50s for tuition, room and board (more off campus) but would get max merit which is $12K i believe. Expensive off campus but I’m thinking she’s a shoo in for an interview weekend invite. If she gets, like mine (and yours is, on paper, a better applicant - if she qualifies for the Charleston Fellows - she’ll have great enrichment , mentoring, and an endowed scholarship to bring cost down more. We were tuition free but had two others too - but could be worth a look - and she can minor in econ. It’s a tad over 10K population but the campus is tiny. So it hits your confines if S Carolina is ok - def a democratic area.

Emory has a Politics, Philosophy and Law Major…not sure if GA ok. The area is blue. She’d have to win the full ride but if you have an app to waste…..again, minor in econ.

You might look at Political Economy as a major.

Tulane (is LA off) - has and merit. You can add a philosophy major.

Muhlenberg has a Political Economy and Public Policy major. It’s a tad too small - 1737 - but sure to be big merit.

AI says this about a Public Policy major.

A public policy major is an interdisciplinary field focused on analyzing, designing, and implementing solutions to complex societal issues. Students gain skills in economics, statistics, and political science to evaluate policy effectiveness and address challenges in areas like health, environment, and education. Graduates typically pursue careers in government, non-profits, consulting, or law

Schools to look at:

W&M gonna be a stretch but has a little OOS merit now. I see on your list already. This is not assured for cost.

Brandeis - you also have

U Denver

SMU

Hofstra - financial and admissions safety - will put merit on NPC (or used to)

Hope that gives a few more names to look at.

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Don’t slice the bologna too thin with PPE.

There are hundreds of places to study the content which is covered off by the traditional PPE designation- originally a UK thing, so not quite as embedded in US universities. And even colleges with an extensive core where you’d think it would be harder to squeeze in all the classes you need- most of the core curricula actually devote a fair amount of time and space to these disciplines.

I’d worry about the price tag and the geography. Once you’ve got that covered, you can do a deep dive into the course catalogue. And a junior semester abroad or at another U can fill in any blanks course-wise.

And take some time to research the “moderate” Catholic U’s. They do a tremendous job with disciplines like PPE (although usually called other things). Even kids who are not Catholic and don’t want a religious institution generally find a receptive home both intellectually and socially. Especially the ones in blue states generally, which have a history of political and social activism on the part of the faculty (both lay and religious) and administration.

I grew up near BC where professors were getting arrested virtually every day for an alleged trespassing incident while protesting the war in Viet Nam. You arrest a priest who happens to be a law professor – he’s going to know his constitutional rights better than the cops AND the DA!

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I agree Rochester would be a good idea to check out, if it counts as a blue area in a purple state at least, and if it offers enough merit:

I also agree people with a PPE sort of interest can look at Public Policy majors, which tend to have a lot of the same content.

Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut has a Public Policy and Law program, and merit. Although again whether it will offer enough merit is a different question:

I also agree about the University of Denver, which has the Scrivner Institute for Public Policy as part of the very well-regarded Korbel School, and they offer Public Policy as an undergrad major (this would be a particularly good choice for anyone with an International Relations interest as well). Their top merit awards would get you on budget I believe:

Gettysburg has a great program, including because they also host the Eisenhower Institute, but I don’t know if this qualifies locationally. On the plus side I think enough merit might be realistic:

As a general observation, big merit is generally about attracting high numbers kids to places they may not otherwise want to go. The problem is your description of a desired area, “blue states or very blue areas in purple states,” also describes where a lot of other high numbers applicants also want to go (not necessarily in these terms, like it could be for other primary reasons that overlap). So this may make it hard to get as much merit as you would like, unless perhaps the locational preference can bend a bit.

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Yes - but if you look at the curriculums, there’s actually less depth in the subjects - so it’s sort of a split the baby - maybe for marketing purposes - but yes, if you want more depth you can minor or double major.

The other thing is - many Poli Sci programs - like I showed at Charleston above - have concentrations within - that won’t pop on a web search. I just knew about that one - but one can dig deeper and find more.

For example, UT Chattanooga (TN doesn’t work) but as an example - has this under poli-sci - 6 tracks - so one really needs to study curriculums deeper to truly know.

American Politics

International and Comparative Studies

Public Law

Public Policy

Public Administration and Nonprofit Management

Politics (the flexible, “build your own concentration” alternative)

A school like Salisbury (will halve the budget) has minors in International Studies but also Law, Justice and Advocacy.

Allegheny (too small) has 6 subfields. Too bad it’s too small - they have great merit.

Whitman says this - The Politics major at Whitman is open and flexible—with very few required courses. Instead, each Politics major is like a custom major—a plan of studies developed one-on-one with your advisor to make sure you come out of the program with the skills, knowledge, networks and experiences you need and desire. Yes, it’s too small.

But the point being - yes, one should look at schools of interest Poli Sci / Government departments - because some will package (it’s all it is) deeper sets of courses inside.

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LOL. Yup I’m back! St olaf is my secret (not so secret) hope, and the most likely outcome. But she wants to get to choose from a full set of options, like her older sibling got. Fair enough!

Elon and Davidson are good fits. She’s not crazy about NC, but since our list is short we might need to add some other areas.

From our last go around, U Rochester never made the final cut for application because it seemed that even with merit it was unlikely to get below $70k. I’ll check again.

U Denver gave D25 a lot of $$. We never visited since St. Olaf was the clear choice for her. Maybe we should check it out though. Could be a great fit for D27.

Thanks!

Yes, PPE is her preference, but she’s well aware it is likely to be unavailable at most schools, or will require her to make it herself. Other likely majors are philosophy, econ, statistics.

Thoughts on George Washington? (Its a little over the desired size, but otherwise?)

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I think it is a fantastic option for kids interested in these areas, not least because it is right in the heart of DC.

Again I think the question might be whether they will actually get on budget. Maybe, but I wouldn’t be sure.

ETA: By the way, this may be way too much of a size compromise, but Pitt is quite strong in all of these areas (particularly Philosophy but also the other two), and their “Honors” Politics and Philosophy major is a PPE program in all but name (meaning you are required to take Econ too):

Again maybe just too big, but if she got Honors as a first-year (it is also possible to join the major later), then it could feel smaller. There is then a good chance that with merit it could be on budget.

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Not a little.

If she wants a campus, it has one for first/second years - a few miles away but the main campus is concrete and a train station. But the footprint isn’t large. And it’s in a great walkable area to so many places.

I believe they have a dining hall now. 5 years ago = they didn’t. The dining plan was all at restaurants.

GW is 11,200 undergrads but more than that grad/law students. Are they all there - not sure.

American would hit your size and give you more merit (I believe). I think GW is tough for that much merit. AU (like Brandeis) has financial issues - so it’s a maybe - they need to buy kids..

If you want to be in that neck of the woods and by neck of, I mean a few hours, look at Salisbury ($30K for you), Mary Washington (high 30s). St. Mary’s of Maryland - their public Honors College would crush the budget. It’s a tad too small.

If you go GW big, then Syracuse is a home run - bigger undergrad but not total and they’ve been going deep the last two years. But then if SU, why not Pitt :slight_smile: So we get too big.

How regional do you want to be - UMBC would be “close” to DC and above size but not horribly so.

UC Merced is WUE and says this about their program:

he mission of the Political Science program is to push forward the boundaries of the discipline, and train graduate and undergraduate students to consume and produce sophisticated modern empirical and theoretical research. The rigorous methodological graduate training that students receive at UC Merced places them at the leading edge of the social sciences. We use a unique approach to graduate training, focused on Political Institutions & Political Economy (PIPE) and Political Cognition & Behavior (CAB), guaranteeing that students will have a comprehensive and creative understanding of politics. We believe in interdisciplinary research, crossing boundaries and finding new frontiers, so students are also encouraged to work with faculty from other disciplines such as cognitive science, psychology, economics, and sociology to enrich their education.

Given you are UT Merit Seeker - schools like W&M sound great on paper…GW, etc - but that’s not what you’re after.

Susquehanna is a dirt cheap after merit school, 2K kids, and I only read great things about it on here. Yes, it’s less competitive - but you are seeking merit and after your St Olaf gem, do you really want to pay $60K?

Really so many options that could fit - and if she wants to be in DC, don’t forget, lots of schools have a DC semester - some their own programs and then others enroll via GW or AU.

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If abortion related laws are the main criteria for this purpose, the following may be helpful:

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Emmanuel (MA): About 1900 undergrads at this Boston school that’s part of the Colleges of the Fenway consortium that allows students to cross-register with other (very) nearby schools and they have some extracurriculars that go across the multiple schools as well. It’s a 2.6 mile walk/bike ride to the Massachusetts State House, if she’s interested in getting involved with politics. There’s no PPE major, but the three parts each have their own major, and the economics major has a concentration in economic policy as well.

College of the Holy Cross (MA): About 3100 undergrads at this Jesuit school, and it might be a really great intellectual fit for your D. Won’t be as easy to hit budget as some of the others, but it’s not impossible either.

Gettysburg (PA ): About 2100 undergrads at this school In addition to traditional offerings in political science and philosophy, it also offers a public policy major that takes advantage of its Eisenhower Institute and its journal on public policy. Would need to check in on the level of “preppiness” to see if it would suit your kid.

Saint Joseph’s, aka St. Joe’s (PA ): About 5k undergrads at this Philadelphia Jesuit school. It offers all three parts of PPE as separate majors and also has a public policy minor.

Saint Catherine’s, aka St. Kate’s (MN): About 2500 undergrads at this women’s college in Saint Paul that offers majors in each of the PPE fields as well as in public policy. St. Kate’s is a 5.5 mile walk/bike ride from the Minnesota State Capitol.

Christopher Newport (VA): About 4400 undergrads at this school that’s the easier admit for a W&M type of kid. There’s no PPE major, but the three parts each have their own major, and the economics major has a concentration in economic policy as well. There are minors in civic engagement and social justice; philosophy of law; and U.S. National Security Studies to give more insight on possibilities at the school or she could just create a PPE major with the Interdisciplinary Studies major.

You’ve said that she’s not a fan of SoCal, but since she’s looking at Claremont McKenna, she may also want to check out fellow consortium-mate Scripps (women’s college with more generous merit) as well as U. of Redlands, a Colleges That Changes Lives school with about 2k undergrads, the separate P.P.E. majors as well as a public policy major. Although it’s marketing material, I think the CTCL profiles generally do a good job at getting the sense of a school across: https://ctcl.org/university-of-redlands/

I’ll second the American, SUNY Geneseo, Susquehanna, Trinity College (BIG second, 1.1 mile from CT State Capitol), and U. of Denver for her as well. And obviously the Gettysburg one since I totally overlooked the original rec for it!

And @Fiftyfifty1 can probably speak to some of the MN colleges mentioned, among other potential ones.

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I’m a big fan of St. Kate’s, but I think its strength is in teaching students who want practical majors like nursing and teaching. It doesn’t have the intellectual vibe I think would be right for this student.

I do think that St. Olaf would be a good choice. And if I were her I would not rule out Macalester based on campus size (but I know we are not the boss of her!)

How about Fordham? She would be in the running for one of its full tuition scholarships. I would suggest Rose Hill campus rather than the Lincoln Center campus for her. Be careful to demonstrate interest and write the optional essays.

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I’m guessing SC is out but since I mentioned C of C - Furman is a former and maybe still is wannabe Duke/Wake (a school many turn too that get turned down at those). Times are getting tough. On another thread @NemesisLead pointed out a $42k merit recently increased to $48k. Direct costs are $81k. The campus is gorgeous. I just see a Poli Sci major but they saty32% go to law school and they have mock trial plus they have The Tocqueville Center for the Study of Democracy & Society , which sponsors a popular student seminar in political thought, and brings some of the nation’s most prominent scholars and intellectuals to campus for public lectures.

I’m sure Econ and philosophy can wedge in.

Given they are buyers, they might be worth a look.

Did I mention Hartwick in NY above ? Full cost is low 40s with up to $10k merit recently increased. York of PA also has a low sticker cost. They have Poli Sci with Philosophy and Econ minors. They may not be at the level of your student but give you are merit seeking. And Furman is a long, established great name if the politics can work. Very respected.

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Ugh! I was wondering why @fiftyfifty1 didn’t comment on U. of St. Thomas when I realized that I didn’t finish copying over my post (which has since been deleted).

Essentially, I said I was losing steam but that I’d also look into Marquette (WI, Jesuit, about 8k undergrads), Providence (RI, Jesuit, mid-sized, 2.x mi to the RI State House), Siena (NY, about 3500 undergrads, about 5.x miles from the NY State Assembly), Skidmore (NY), U. of St. Thomas (MN, about 6500ish undergrads, 5.xish miles from the MN State Capitol), and The College of New Jersey (7k?ish, about 4ish? miles from the NJ Capitol). There might have been another on there, but I can’t remember, and obviously the student populations and mileage from the state legislature (and I may mistakenly call something a House vs. Capitol off the top of my head, too) are approximations from my poor memory.

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Great choices and as the OP said above, St. Olaf, based on last year might ultimately end up the winner.

I don’t think Skidmore is worth a look though. They gave two merit offers last year at $20K - that was it - per CDS and their own website shows very little merit.

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I know that was historically true, but I thought I saw someone who had received a fairly substantial merit award from them this year and was surprised.

Looking at their website, there are two types of merit scholarships listed, a music one awarded to 4-6 students and a rather broad STEM-related one (Porter-Wachenheim Presidential) that is awarded to approximately 45 students a year. But based on those, I agree that there’s probably very little potential to reach budget at Skidmore for this applicant’s interests.

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I figured had to be need. One person said $4k and Rochester was like $25k. So to me they instantly become a if you have need school.

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I’m a fan of St. Thomas too– it has an appealing size, a gorgeous campus, a great location, and generous merit. It does have a preppy vibe though. I would choose Olaf or Mac over St. Thomas for this student.

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From what I hear from my Ole, St Thomas is mostly a jock, business bro, commuter school. Not sure if that is a fair characterization, but that is the reputation.

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I would say that St. Thomas is preppy, sporty, “mainstream”, with emphasis on pre-professional degrees, especially business. I think it has a strong campus life though, and a commuter vibe doesn’t predominate (although commuter students are allowed unlike at some LACs.) I have known a range of students from obnoxious bros, to smart and sensitive, to nerdy. I think the education is strong, but it isn’t a great match for arty or “life of the mind” type kids.

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