Match Me: 3.58 W, 35 ACT, First Gen, Chem major [WI resident, 3.46 GPA, <$60k]

Chance Me / Match Me
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**Posting for my son, we’re trying to figure out where else he should apply - tricky due to his gpa and ACT score differences.

Demographics

  • State/Location of residency: Wisconsin
  • Type of high school (or current college for transfers): Medium Public
  • Other special factors: First Gen, LGBTQ+

Intended Major(s): Chemistry, 2nd choice Physics, 3rd choice BioChem

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 3.46
  • Weighted HS GPA: 3.58 (freshman yr low gpa, straight-A’s since, even in APs)
  • Class Rank: Top 50%
  • ACT/SAT Scores: 35 composite in one sitting, 36 math, 36 science

List your HS coursework

  • APs: Will have 7: U.S. History (4), Bio (5), upon graduation: Chem, Stats, Physics 1, Physics C, Lit
  • Math: Pre-Calculus (self-studying calculus)
  • English: AP Lit, DE English
  • Science: AP Bio, Chem and Physics
  • Visual or performing arts: lots of art classes

Awards/Honors: National Art Honor Society, ACT Plaque for high scorers in senior class

Extracurriculars: A lot of self-guided CRISPR/DNA/mRNA research, C++ coding, no sports, work a part-time job at a grocery store (12hrs/wk during school, 30hrs/wk in summer), tutor peers and sibling in math and science during school year, art (painting)

Essays/LORs/Other: Have very strong LOR from AP Bio and Physics teachers (Physics teacher has her phd in chemistry and also teaches AP Chem too)

Schools: **Applying to University of Minnesota Twin Cities (college of science & engineering), and UW Madison (in-state).
**
Note: In additional info section, freshman year grades were explained: came out in middle school, lots of struggles that stuck with him into 9th grade with that, diagnosed in 9th grade with ADHD and took most of the year to figure out best medications for it and methods for better executive function skills (being organized, etc). Had a huge turnaround starting in 10th grade with straight-A’s, even in APs.

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I would definitely include St Olaf, very strong for his majors of interest and will likely consider his upward trend favorably + have time to read the explanation for the lower 9th grade results. He would need to demonstrate interest ASAP by joining their mailing list and clicking on the messages they send (this is tracked). You may also be able to visit if you visit UMN since it’s 45mn South of the Twin Cities.

Wisconsin has lots of solid public universities beside UWisc Madison (which is world class but where his GPA may not be sufficient to gain him access to his majors of interest.) Eau-Claire and Stout would be safeties, or UMN Morris.

Overall I think he’ll do better with private colleges since they have more staff per applicant, pay more attention to subjective factors such as personal circumstances&essays, and aren’t as brutally GPA/test scores as very large public universities.
What’s your budget? Can you run the NPC on St Olaf and others (Lawrence WI, Beloit, Hamline, St Thomas, Luther IA..)

University of Iowa would be an excellent safety because it has an academic index for automatic admission and he’s well above it so he’d hear back quickly. It’d likely take a lot of stress off his shoulders.
He should apply to the Honors as soon as he gets his acceptance.

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I’ll need to edit my original post, but he doesn’t want to attend any private university or college where religion plays a role. He’s also hoping for a larger R1 university. He wants to get his phd after his undergraduate. Hoping that since his transcript shows such a significant grade improvement after 9th grade, that a holistic reviewer will apply less significance on his gpa.

He was already direct-admitted to UMN Morris, Gustavus, Bradley, Illinois Wesleyan, along with 70 others via common app direct admission. None that he’s interested, unfortunately.

We’d like to keep tuition costs under $40k/year (understanding that housing, food, travel will add to this). He won’t qualify for anything need-based and we will be paying out of pocket fully.

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I wouldn’t study for Calc AP.

What is your budget? That’s important.

What does he seek in a school - location wise, size, environment (rural, urban, suburban), sports or not, religion or not, etc.

There will be tons of schools for him and he can major in Chem…no need for back up.

But budget and desires will drive a list.

So need to know more before I can throw out school names.

But it’s not tricky at all - GPA and ACT…once we know the desires and budget.

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For some reason I can’t edit my original post to include some of these details, but he doesn’t want to attend any private university or college where religion plays a role.

He wants a mid to large R1 university (He wants to get his phd after his undergraduate). He does not want rural. Does not care about school sports or the big rah rah campuses.

We’d like to keep tuition costs under $40k/year (understanding that housing, food, travel will add to this). He won’t qualify for anything need-based and we will be paying out of pocket fully. We definitely don’t want to be paying $80k/yr out of pocket, but we can afford ~$40-60k/year.

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Forgot to respond to this, I should’ve clarified, he’s self-studying so that he can further his math knowledge and understanding to prepare for college and prepare for physics C exam better, not to take the AP Calc exam.

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What level has the student completed in language other than English?

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Two years of spanish.

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OK - and has to be an LGBTQ friendly state - so states like AL and MS are out. That’s where the money is.

SUNY schools will work - maybe not a Bing or Stony Brook but perhaps an Albany or Buffalo.

Kansas is a home run - not sure related to LGBTQ although KU is liberal - but they have embedded abortion rights into the state constitution. K State is known as a top school for happiness and teaching.

U Denver won’t hit $40K but will be under $60K.

Schools like Central Michigan and Southern Illinois don’t charge out of state tuition.

Hopefully he gets into UMN. I don’t see UW and UMN will be tough due to the GPA but possible. How about Michigan State too - it’s on the left side of the list attached below (most PhDs not accounting for school size)?

Honestly, where you may get your best bang for the buck are the small liberal arts colleges - and they are on the feeder per capita PhD list. A school like Juniata (#4) and Kalamazoo (#6) should get you close to budget. K is down the street from W Michigan (another to look at) - so while it’s small, it’s at least adjacent to larger life, etc. Lawrence in Appleton might be in that same vein.

Obviously, you have UW branches - and again, not knowing the distance - but other liberal state schools could be Colorado State, U of New Mexico….but are these too far? Delaware would be a home run for Chem (think all the chemical companies) but I’m not sure you can get to budget - but you can try.

I honestly wouldn’t worry about R1 - not as an undergrad.

You could also try UNLV/Reno and Wayne State - they are R1 - for what it’s worth.

I don’t think that matters - but if the student were open to schools in the South, it’d open the list more. For example, Alabama, if you have a 3.5 (not sure if weighted or unweighted) would be low 20s with auto merit. Now, Campus Pride gave them a 4.5 out of 5 but yes, the current administration and state are putting in laws.

But if that kind of school were to work - in addition to schools like Bama and Ms State or Ole Miss, even closer to home you have the Iowa schools, Nebraska Schools, Ohio U, WVU, etc.

That’s just some ideas. If anything I wrote resonated or you can clarify deeper, please let me know.

Top Feeders to Ph.D. Programs

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Agree! He would ideally like to stay out of the south.

UMN is his top-choice, he is really, really hoping to get into there. Based on his stats it does seem he would get into at least the college of liberal arts and could transfer into college of science and engineering. We’ve toured UMN already as well. If 9th grade grades were not a factor he would have a 4.0 unweighted ugh.

He’s already been auto-admitted to all the other UW branches that offer it (Madison, Eau Claire and LaCrosse are the 3 that don’t auto-admit WI residents), he has no interest in any of the branch UWs. He was direct admitted to SUNY Buffalo and Brockport via common app. He’ll be applying to Madison but knows it could be a reach. His LORs and essay will play a big factor in it I think, based on what we’ve read about… he’s brilliant and hard working, his teachers will attest to this. All of his math and AP science assignments and test scores are 100%, every single one. His teachers have spoken to me about how they ‘all’ talk about him and how incredible he is as a student. It literally sickens us how much his 9th grade struggles will hurt his chances at more competitive schools.

Our daughter is a senior at Bama, our son does not want to go there, though he realizes he could get a significant auto-merit scholarship, he doesn’t want to go south :slight_smile:

I’m thinking Iowa University or Iowa State could be good safeties for him. I’ll definitely encourage him to explore both. I’ll check out the feeders link you shared too!

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If he wants to go for a PHD (I realize this may change), he really should look into national LACs since they typically produce way more students who go on to PhD programs than large universities - this is due to their faculty being in part recruited for their ability to include undergrads into their research, when at large universities grad students will have the biggest responsibility, then often Honors College students or in specific Honors programs (for whom research may be a graduation requirement). In addition, the government research cuts made to large university research labs mean positions for undergrads will be even scarcer.
St Olaf, Lawrence, Kalamazoo are among those with high per capita PHD access and accessible for his GPA/test score (st Olaf probably target, Lawrence/Kalamazoo probably likely).
Lawrence&Kalamazoo don’t have anything religious-related.
(That being said, St Olaf isn’t "close-minded"religious - for instance, the first trans person who worked in the White House was a St Olaf grad. But it does have religion/ethics requirements so is likely out of the running).
Basically, colleges with 3-2 or 3-3 faculty contracts are going to have decent research opportunities.

If big time sports are a deal breaker, those^ wouldn’t work - undergraduate research access may not go hand in hand with large university sports. However a less exposed, less selective public university may be a good mix, allowing him to stand out and thus giving him a chance to join a lab and get research experience.

Beside being an auto admit to UIowa(+Honors), what about Pitt? It’s worth sending an application since they weigh test scores favorably (and their Honors College process would mean he may stand a chance there too, not sure about the research funding cuts there) and have rolling admissions so process applications quickly.
Other ideas in terms of large/medium universities:
UMaine Orono or USouthern Maine, UDel, App State?
Case Western would be a reach and no big time sports but Cleveland has excellent pro sports, could that substitute? And it’s a powerhouse for STEM.
ETA: saw above reply wrt Southern states.

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If he is concerned about state level laws and policies, the map linked below may be useful. For each state, it also lists specific laws and policies that may be of interest.

Note that some non-south states have unfriendly laws and policies.

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This is a great point, and I’ll be sure to bring this up to him!

He doesn’t care about sports at all, likely won’t attend a single event in all of college (hasn’t in high school) :joy:

I’m really liking the idea of U Iowa, and hadn’t considered Pitt, but will definitely add that to our list to look over, especially if they weigh test scores favorably! Will check out the others you listed as well!

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Appreciate you sharing this! I’ll check it out and bookmark!

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Always a risk.

Sounds like you want to stay closer to home - so maybe Michigan State, as a PhD feeder, is that perfect safety - you know UW, UMN, Michigan State - and done. Or if Minnesota is the top choice, why apply to UW at all.

What I worry about with the big publics - how impactful are essays and LORs (don’t know). Per UMN, considered, two steps down from the top - rigor, GPA, test score. UMN has a much higher acceptance rate than I realized - more than 3/4 of students were admitted. I did not realize - so yeah, it seems reasonable - so then how about UMN and Michigan State (think PhD feeder and LGBTQ friendly state) and done. I think Iowa, if the state laws and treatment matter, would not make your list - other than its adjacent. It’s Alabama as a state - but close to home, in other words.

I do think the SUNYs – if Buff is auto admit - fine school. Albany is the R1 safety though - but again, don’t think it matters.

But you are right - looks an easy admit for liberal arts. Then the transferability is the issue - what if he can’t? Or is that a risk willing to take if it comes down to it.

Wow, I learned something new (about UMN) - a bit easier to get in than realized.

Thanks for that.

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It’s actually a little deceiving. Getting into the liberal arts college is fairly easy. College of Science and Engineering is the most difficult to get into, then Carlson School of Management and College of Biological Sciences is next in line for difficulty. The CLA has a Chemistry major, though reports are pretty common for being able to transfer into CSE if you have a good gpa freshman year. Especially for a non-engineering major.

Because if he were to get into UW Madison, I think he would highly consider it. He considers UMN his top choice because he feels he’ll be able to at least get into CLA. He sees Madison as a ‘reach’ but views it as a better school academically, which is what he’d prefer. We haven’t toured Madison yet, but plan to this fall. Madison highly values strong essays and LORs, but this will also be the first year of the Wisconsin Promise, or whatever it’s called, where Madison will be auto-admitting the top 5% of all Wisconsin high school’s seniors (if they apply by Nov 1). Due to this, we’re anticipating a lot more deferrals for other Wisconsin residents; more than normal at least.

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However, changing to the College of Science and Engineering at UMN requires competitive admission, as described at Transfer from within the UMN Twin Cities or Rochester campuses to CSE | College | College of Science and Engineering

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Yes, he’s aware of that. We have personally known a few students over the last two years who have done so successfully. He already applied to UMN on 9/16 and 1st choice college was for CSE, second was CBS. All students are considered for admission into CLA automatically, so we’ll just have to see where things shake out and what results he gets! Our fingers are crossed for direct admission into CSE!

ETA: Although we live in Wisconsin, we’re actually on the border of Minnesota, and we’re only 30 minutes from the University of Minnesota Twin Cities - so we’re very familiar with many local students who attend, as it’s quite a popular choice for our area.

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If he wants a large R1 university that is a slightly easier than U Wisconsin but is still rigorous, he might want to look at OSU. They have a very challenging honors chemistry sequence (chem 1910h/1920h) which is itself a level above the standard chem for majors (Chem 1610)

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For such an aspiration, schools such as Reed or Kalamazoo would be suitable, with Kalamazoo being more likely to be affordable.

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