Match Me as a Junior who wants to be a research scientist and has no idea what schools are actually realistically going to accept them [NC resident, 4.0 GPA, top 5%, 35 ACT, 1520 SAT, <$15-20k, math or neuroscience]

Chance Me / Match Me
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Demographics

I’m a US Permanent Resident. I go to a public high school in North Carolina. I am a Junior.

Intended Major(s)

Neuroscience or Mathematics

I’m still undecided on what to major in, but I will definitely be doing something in STEM that has a lot of opportunity for research.

I plan on getting a graduate degree afterwards.

College Requirements/Preferences:

  • Affordable tuition
  • Gives out scholarships
  • Good Research Opportunities for Undergrads
  • Bigger City + Cold Weather (Not high priority, but preferable)

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 4.0
  • Weighted HS GPA (as of last semester): 4.425 (My High school uses a 4.0 for an A in a regular course, 4.5 for an A in an honors course and 5.0 for an A in a AP/College Level Course)
  • Class Rank (as of last semester): 13/285
  • ACT Score: 35 Composite (36 English, 35 reading, 35 Math, 33 Science)
  • SAT Score: 1520 (770 Math, 750 Reading) **This was my first attempt, I will be retaking it and I’m aiming for a 1550-1570

HS coursework

  • English: English 1 Honors English 2 Honors, AP Language and Composition (this year) AP Literature (Next year)
  • Math: Math 1 Honors, Math 2 Honors, Math 3 Honors, Statistical Methods 1 (College Class), AP Calculus AB, AP Calculus BC (This semester), Calculus 3 (Next Year), Linear Algebra (Next Year)
  • Science: Environmental Science Honors, Biology Honors, Physics Honors, Chemistry Honors, Astronomy, AP Physics 1 (this semester), AP Chemistry (Next Year)
  • History and social studies: Civics Honors, World History Honors, American History Honors, Economics Honors (Next Year)
  • Language other than English: French 1, French 2 (this semester), College French (Next Year)
  • Visual or performing arts: Visual Arts 1 Honors
  • Other academic courses: Drafting 1 Honors, Drafting 2 Honors, AP Seminar (I will potentially be taking this next year)

Notable Awards

  1. Challenge Coin: I got this at the summer research program I attended for the leadership, initiative and effort I displayed. I was the only one awarded this out of my cohort.

Major Extracurriculars

  1. Violin: I’ve been playing for 5 Years, about to be ABRSM Grade 5 certified, Youth Orchestra member
  2. Volunteering: I was a part of a teen council last year and got 100+ volunteer hours with them, I’ve been volunteering at my local library since last June and now I volunteer on behalf of my school’s Beta Club
  3. Summer Research Program: I spent 4 weeks living on the UNCW campus doing research with a professor. We were working in the field of Maritime Cybersecurity (Basically computer science) and I wrote a research paper on my project. This program is relatively prestigious+competitive in NC.
  4. School Honor Societies: I’m in NHS, SNHS and Mu Alpha Theta

Minor Extracurriculars:

  1. DECA: I was in this club last year and I made it to the state-level, but the advisor for the club retired and my school could not afford a new teacher to supervise/run the club
  2. Math Olympiads: Took the AMC, Participated in the USAMTS, Participated in a state Math contest

Essays/LORs
I’m perceived as a very hard working, motivated and respectful individual, and there are teachers at my school that I know like me, so I believe I will have good Letters of Recommendation.

I think that I’ll have pretty good essays. I’ve gotten admitted into a selective summer research program completely on the basis of my essays (my extracurriculars were not impressive), I’ve won an essay competition, and my English teachers grade my writing highly, so I’m assuming my college application essays will be strong.

More Context: **Disclaimer: This is going to be long!

The biggest reason I’m making this post is because I know I have pretty good test scores and grades, but I feel like my extracurriculars are not good, which holds me back from being able to get accepted into more competitive schools. I want to see what is realistic for me and what I should actually be aiming for–essentially viewing my application from an outside perspective.

I also wanted to mention that my school doesn’t have many clubs, and even though I joined several at the start of the year (Speech and Debate, Math Olympiad etc..), they all kind of dissipated. We only have a HOSA, which is threaded with “nepotism” (if you are friends/close with the club officers or close with the teacher, you progress through the different levels of competition and eventually become the club officers, but if you aren’t well known its hard to actually do anything or go anywhere).

I also feel like I don’t have any leadership experience, which I know colleges tend to look for. I haven’t started any clubs, and I’m not in any current “leadership” positions, even though I am perfectly capable of taking the lead (I do this in my daily life quite a bit. I’m always guiding discussions, managing group projects and etc).

However, I do have a really deep passion for learning that I have no idea where to mention or list. I am constantly reading, writing or self-studying and since this has no “visible” output that would mean anything to colleges, all my passion looks nonexistent on paper.

  • Mathematics is a subject that is of great interest to me, and I haven’t started a math club at my school or anything, but I spend so much time understanding math instead of just memorizing and regurgitating it. I solved a puzzle from the Moscow Puzzles every day for a few months, I read some of the AoPS books, I’m reading An Introduction to Mathematical Philosophy by Bertrand Russell and other similar math books. I’ve also begun working through E.J. Barbeau’s textbook, Polynomials, to better understand the mathematics that is brushed over in high school. (albeit, this stuff is hard to do consistently because of junior year workload/life stuff that I can’t avoid).
  • I love to write. I’ve been trying to channel this love into essay competitions (I’m submitting my writing to two competitions this year), but sometimes the stress of a competition takes the fun out of writing so It’s not something I have an extensive history of awards in.
  • I also like to write fiction/stories for fun, but since its for fun and not published or solving a major world-problem or anything, I doubt this would have any value on my application
  • I also love to read. I’m an avid reader of both fiction and nonfiction. This is a consuming, but incredibly rewarding hobby that looks kind of stupid when mentioned on a college application, but I feel that it has a significant impact on my life.
  • I want to be a research scientist and I’ve applied to 3 research summer programs this year to pursue my interest. I’ve gotten rejected from 2, the last one has results coming out in May.
  • I’ve been learning how to program in python and I’ve been solving problems from the Euler Project (an archive of math-based programming exercises) but I feel like this isn’t “big” enough to be listed as an extracurricular
  • Overall, I go above and beyond in school to actually understand what I’m learning. For example, for Calculus class, I spend a lot of time at home reading proofs and understanding the logic.
  • My counselor also messed up my sophomore year schedule, so I wasn’t put in precalculus and I was told because of that issue I would not be able to take Calculus. I wanted to learn Calculus so bad that I self-studied for the AP exam and made a deal with my school’s calculus teacher to get a 5 on it so I could be in the class.

I’ve spent most of my life under the impression that I shouldn’t be living and doing everything in certain ways just to look good for colleges, but now I feel like I’ve held myself back from becoming a really strong applicant.

Are my extracurriculars and blatant lack of leadership positions really that bad? What colleges can I realistically get into? Prestige isn’t the biggest deal for me, but as someone who wants to be a research scientist, I know that any small advantages or special opportunities you get from going to a “bigger” school can add up in the future and I really want to be a researcher. It’s the only career that actually accommodates my desire to learn.

**I apologize if I ever came off as pretentious or abrasive in this post. I’m kind of frustrated if that wasn’t obvious. Its just that I work really hard and I have a genuine love for learning, but thats honestly not enough to get you anywhere these days. I might be sounding really cynical, but throughout high school, I’ve lost opportunities/awards/credit to people who chatgpt their way through everything which is obviously not the best feeling.

What are the good colleges for students who want to do a lot of research/pursue research professionally
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What is the price limit from your parents, and have they or you used the net price calculator on some colleges of interest (e.g. UNC, NCSU, other NC publics, and some privates you may be interested in)?

ACT to SAT Score Conversion Chart | ACT/SAT Concordance says that your 35 ACT is equivalent to 1530-1560 SAT, so retaking the SAT may not help unless you get at least 1570.

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University of Rochester?

Rhodes?

University of Delaware

You are a strong student. Use your 35 ACT score! That is great as is your GPA.

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Where did neuroscience come from? Everything you mention point to a strong interest in math and some interest in philosophy and writing, but nothing much points to neuroscience, cognitive science, psychology, or biology.

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We would prefer tuition to be under 20k-15k yearly, but we haven’t looked at tuition for individual schools yet because I honestly don’t have a list.

I’m only retaking the SAT because certain schools in my area prefer SAT scores/don’t really care about the ACT. I just want to make sure that both are around the same level so I can submit the same “portfolio” everywhere.

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Try the net price calculators at least some of the NC public universities and some of the other schools that other posters will suggest to get an idea of whether need based financial aid may work or if you need to chase merit scholarships.

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My interest in Neuroscience is pretty random, but it’s something I’ve latched onto recently because I feel like It combines several STEM subjects together so I don’t have to corner myself into one area. Most Neuroscience majors take Chem, Bio, Physics and basically every science course, so I feel like I’d be learning the most. I also feel like Neuroscience is a genuinely interesting subject with good opportunity for research, whereas a career as a mathematician wouldn’t be the most sustainable (even though I really like math, the career prospects aren’t great so its probably just going to be something I continue studying throughout my life and don’t pursue professionally).

I’ve started reading a textbook in Neuroscience to see what its all about, but I had to stop because schoolwork and orchestra started picking up. I’m planning to join a youth Neuroscience association/club in my area after I’ve read a bit more of the textbook.

I completely understand why the sudden mention of Neuroscience made no sense. I should’ve explained that better.

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University of New Mexico might be an option. @WayOutWestMom what research opportunities might there be at UNM?

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Do you think you will qualify for need based aid? Your stats are strong enough that you might get accepted at a school that meets full need. And I think merit aid is a good possibility as well.

I also think you should look at all of the wonderful instate public universities in NC where your costs will likely be more modest.

Look at the Colleges That Change Lives list. Many give excellent merit aid.

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I need to talk to my local neuroscience bachelor’s degree holder and see whether there is much math in neuroscience.

Math can be used in a lot of areas. I think that neuroscience is fascinating but I am not as clear what it is used for.

For university purpose, and for almost anything other than voting or running for president, “permanent resident” is the same as citizen.

The University of North Carolina is a very good university. It can give you are very good start on your education. Even the top universities in the USA will know how strong it is (for example when I was a graduate student at Stanford one of my best friends in the same program was a UNC graduate).

If you and/or your parents can save some money to help with the cost of a graduate program this might be very helpful in the long run.

I still like UNC.

With your stats McGill would almost be a safety. It would certainly provide a great education, an attractive city, cold weather, and some chance to try out your French. It would cost more than UNC unless you happen to be a citizen of Canada or France or a few other Francophone countries. Do take the exchange rate into consideration if you look up the price. Much of the same things could be said about U. of Toronto, except for the French part.

Your stats are very good. You might be competitive for the highly ranked reach schools such as MIT or Harvard or Stanford, but these can be very expensive if you don’t qualify for need based aid. I am not convinced that they are worth the cost for undergrad (they might be worth the cost for a shorter master’s degree, and PhD’s are typically fully funded in STEM fields).

Somewhere like Johns Hopkins or Northeastern or Tufts also come to mind. Here again the cost relative to UNC concerns me. Again these schools have great graduate programs and if you get in for a PhD in a STEM field it is likely to be fully funded.

Somewhere like U.Mass or UVM might be safe for admissions and very highly likely for merit based aid, but I do wonder if they fall into the “just as good as UNC and only twice the price” category. UNC is a very good university and tough to beat given in-state pricing (my understanding is that in-state merit aid at UNC is very competitive, but may be possible for a few very strong students which might maybe possibly include you).

I may PM you about this. There is quite a bit of math in cybersecurity (I was a math major).

Agree.

This is way less clear. The main points of ECs are to do something constructive, do something that is right for you, whatever you do you should do it well, be genuine, and treat people well. To me this sounds like exactly what you have done. Having some research experience is very good.

Two things that occur to me regarding the most highly ranked and selective / rejective schools: One is that admissions is very hard to predict. The other is that they are expensive unless you qualify for a lot of need based aid. I do know a few people who do qualify for need based aid, and a few people who are so successful that spending $100,000 per year per child is not a problem for them. However the vast majority of people I know who have the academics to be competitive for Harvard or Princeton or MIT or Stanford do not fall into either of these categories, and are instead in the so called “donut hole” of families that just cannot afford to attend these schools or cannot justify the cost for undergrad (although sometimes a one year master’s or a fully funded PhD is possible). The people I know who have been full pay for undergrad at these schools in recent years either were very, very financially successful or only had one child or both. Of course 50+ years ago when I was in university costs were expensive but way more reasonable compared to now.

This does make it a bit hard to decide what would be appropriate, but also leaves a lot of schools to consider.

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You may not find your ECs super impressive, but I find them very interesting! If you write about them the right way, I think that application readers might also find you to be of more interest than you might otherwise think.

You mention $15-20k for tuition. Does your family understand that room and board is usually $15-20k more? So is your family looking to pay $15-20k total, or is something like $35-40k/year within budget?

Also, you mention a desire for schools that offer scholarships. Is that because you know your family won’t qualify for need-based aid anywhere? Or is it that you know that your family is unwilling or unable to pay full freight at many of the universities in the U.S.? If your family hasn’t done so, it may want to run the Net Price Calculator at Princeton. Princeton is arguably the most generous college in the U.S. in definining need, so if their need-based aid package isn’t sufficient, then no other college’s will likely be sufficient either.

For someone who’s interested in research, you may be interested in lists of schools that tend to be PhD feeders. This aggregator may be very helpful, as it lists feeders for PhDs generally as well as by various subjects, both in terms of absolute numbers as well as per capita: https://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/dataverse/top-feeders-phd-programs

If you identify as female, I’d suggest checking out Bryn Mawr, Smith, and Mount Holyoke. Those are all part of the Seven Sisters’ colleges which have strong alumni and networking, are very well-respected academically, are quite supportive of undergraduate research, and offer merit aid (aka, scholarships). Bryn Mawr is in a suburb of Philadelphia while Smith and Mount Holyoke are part of a consortium with UMass, Amherst, and Hampshire in a picturesque/collegial area, but not exactly a major metropolis. For some coed schools, Oberlin and College of Wooster are not in a big city, but Cleveland is very reachable from them, and both provide strong opportunities for students who intend to pursue doctorates.

If you prefer a big college, then make sure you don’t overlook UNC and NC State…and with their locations in the Research Triangle, those will be very hard to beat (particularly with in-state pricing). Other big colleges in cold cities that you may want to consider include U. of Minnesota, Ohio State, U. at Buffalo, and U. of Pittsburgh.

If you’re looking for more of a mid-sized option, then I’d check out Case Western, U. of Rochester, and Brandeis.

Do let us know if the NPC at Princeton comes back as affordable. If so, there are some other schools to mention that could meet your interest for a school in a cold location by a big city with strong research opportunities.

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As I mentioned in another thread, I think Harvey Mudd is an excellent choice for STEM research. You have done calculus, which is an entrance requirement. That would be my target school. Contact them. They, however, have only a 13% admit rate, so don’t count on anything. But you have a chance.

From my experience, colleges love people who contact them. They may even invite you for a chat. I actually had a chat with the head of the math department at my university (attended 50 years ago now - time flies).

While all my other subjects were good, I failed English, which is normally a deal breaker. I already had knowledge equivalent to the first year through self-study, so he admitted me. It turned out there was no need because they had a policy of assumed knowledge (no need to go into it). It’s just my experience, but IMHO, schools really like to hear from prospective students.

Of course, there are many other good research schools; do a search on America’s Best Colleges for Research. Contact those who interest you as well. However, most (possibly all) have acceptance rates lower than Harvey Mudd, which is one reason I suggested it.

Find the school you like best and follow the advice of the school counsellor (mine was actually the head of the math department). I found out later (this was 50 years ago), nobody wanted to do a 100% math degree - it was very unpopular - computer science was the big thing. Still, several math and computer science subjects overlapped, and I was headhunted for a programmer when I graduated. The bottom line is they were letting anyone in who showed promise and wanted to do it.

A good fallback school is Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology, which I think you are a shoo-in for (76% acceptance rate). They have an IRC program you can look into if you’re interested in research. Also, their fast-track calculus and accelerated math/physics options are worth considering. Personally, and it is just my opinion, if I wanted a traditional 4-year USA college experience and could not get into Harvey Mudd, I would attend Rose-Hulman.

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This is why on your other thread, I said budget matters more than anything. The good news is, you can get a math degree and / or some kind of neuro - at many fine schools. But they might not be the type of school or location you desire.

I’ve put two Net Price Calculators below. Have your family fill out - and what do they show?

As far as $20K a year - and it may be a bit more, you’ll need to go South - a U of Alabama, MIssissippi State, UAH for smaller.

You have GREAT schools in NC - from UNC to NC State to App State. Maybe you’re a candidate for the Levine full ride at UNCC? And ECU has the Brinkley Lane Scholars.

You’ll find full rides at schools like W&L, Davidson and more.

But the first school you need to find is that assured to make budget - or get close with a loan. You might think - but i’m a stud - kids like me don’t go to UNCC or WCU. But the truth is, kids go to where they can afford.

Research is secondary and can be done most anywhere.

See these - it will show if you qualify for need aid.

Welcome | Net Price Calculator

Welcome | Net Price Calculator

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You may want to do some research on the career prospects at the BA/BS and PhD level in each subject before assuming anything about that. Also, consider what backup career options may be available for holders of degrees in each subject if you do not get the desired research job.

Note that there is a much greater supply of biology and psychology graduates than math graduates at both the BA/BS and PhD levels:

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Somehow I missed this.

I got my bachelor’s degree in mathematics. I got my master’s degree in a subfield of applied math, specifically in Operations Research.

There are a LOT of things that you can do with a degree in mathematics. There are a lot of things that people I knew from my undergraduate math program did with their careers.

One person I knew as an undergraduate student I happened to run into years later. He had gone into acoustics (with a bachelor’s in math and a master’s degree in acoustics). He showed me what he did on a day to day basis. There is a LOT of mathematics in keeping your car quiet or in making sure that every seat in a theater or concert hall has good acoustics.

There is a lot of mathematics in physics research, whether aligning the beam on a cyclotron, or aiming a radio telescope and analyzing the results that it gathers, or a wide range of other tasks.

Some people with a degree in mathematics go into either machine learning or artificial intelligence. This again might involve a master’s degree.

Some people with a degree in mathematics go into accounting, or into quantitative investing. Econometrics (quantitative economics) requires a fair degree of math.

There are a number of software applications that need math. My understanding is that there is some math in gaming software (although I am not sure whether there is enough to justify a degree in math).

Operations Research is used in a variety of business applications of mathematics. Some of this involves business logistics. It is sometimes combined with industrial engineering, or with business. However, to me the math heavy side of this is the most interesting.

I am sure that I am missing some other applications.

Perhaps the one thing that no one I knew who got a bachelor’s degree in math did: At least in my experience none of the math students who I had known in university went into teaching. This might be unfortunate.

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Potential use of math in computer games:

  • Computer graphics.
  • AI of non-players in the game.
  • Physics of moving objects.
  • Economic modeling.
  • Operations research and logistics.
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Same here; my undergrad was in math. But I was offered a programming job even before graduation. When I retired early due to illness, I did my Master’s in a niche subfield - the foundations of Quantum Mechanics. Math is a very general degree, especially if you do a Master’s.

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Check out this course: Prerequisites and preparatory materials for NMA Computational Neuroscience — Neuromatch Academy: Computational Neuroscience although if you’re just looking for employment opportunities prost graduation, computational neuroscience may not be the best option as most go into academia, which isn’t the best paying.

No point retaking the SAT - if you want to retake something, retake the ACT to aim for a 36 if you want the presidential elite scholarship at the university of Alabama. But if you don’t want to go there, there’s little point to retaking either test.

Also see: Tiny brains, big data: App State-led project aims to prepare the neuroscientists of tomorrow | Appalachian Today

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As a high-achieving student, your further success will depend on the quality of your college list.

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D2 was fascinated by neuroscience, but I insisted that she minor in math (she had taken math thru linear algebra in high school) because actually MATH offers better employment prospects than neuroscience—even at graduate and post grad level.

D2 ended up double majoring in neuroscience and mathematics and did research in the cognition of mathematics, She thought about pursuing neuroscience at the PhD level and worked as a research program manager in neuroscience for 2 years after college, but then opted to go to medical school instead because the job prospects for neuroscience PhDs are just so bleak.

D1 was math and physics double major who opted for med school, but her math classmates work in all sort of different occupations including: weather prediction/meteorology, urban planning, financial analysis, risk management, power grid management, and banking. Math has a broad variety of real world applications.

My SIL has a BS and PhD in theoretical physics and works at the intersection of theoretical math*, theoretical physics* and computer science doing theoretical quantum computing*. He does math proofs as a hobby. (In fact, he and one of his research partners just published a solution to a problem that has been unsolved for over 100 years and one he personally has been working on for almost 20 years.) He is director of research institute at a major university and also has been a founding partner in several start-up companies in quantum computing. He hires math degrees at all levels to work for his current company. He also prefers math degree undergrads when he’s hiring grad students and post docs for his own research program at the university

*theoretical generally mean it’s all math & equations, not hands-on involving equipment.

Math is actually quite a practical major. And it much more employable than neuroscience.

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