For soccer, she doesn’t want D1, so we are focused on D3. She loves the game and wants to keep playing. I’d say at the D3s we are looking at, a surprising number of the team are stem, lab-based athletes. That part has been very nice actually. I agree about CMU - we had reached out to get some info from a rigorous school that probably wasn’t a good fit to get some insight on how a “splitter” (thanks @blossom for that term - never heard that before but it’s perfect) would be received.
1 Like
It says qualifying for aid, which isn’t easy to get from oos public’s.
2 Likes
We didn’t have Bucknell on the list because it is, in my mind, a more conservative “preppy” vibe school. Am I wrong about that?
I wouldn’t call Bucknell conservative or preppy necessarily but I would say it’s relatively more conservative than some schools on the list. Preppy seems to have so many definitions that it’s hard to answer. For example, there are plenty of what I would call preppy students at Lehigh, Lafayette, Davidson, Bowdoin, and Richmond. Not saying there aren’t preppy students at other schools on the list. If she’s going to visit Lehigh, Lafayette, and/or Dickinson, may as well go to Bucknell.
What about the oxford campus of Emory? My ADHD soccer player thrived there.
6 Likes
Welcome back! It’s always interesting to see the different interests and tastes of members in the same family!
You’re unlikely to be surprised that I am concerned about the fact that there isn’t much on the current list that would be considered a likely school for your D. So that’s where I spent most of my time looking for options. I strongly recommend having at least two schools where your D is highly likely to be admitted, that she would be happy to enroll, and that would be affordable for your family. For some students, this can be the hardest part of the list to develop, but it’s the most important part of the list for ALL students.
The schools below are sorted by my guesses as to which might be the most appealing to your D, but take this with a heaping bowl of salt, as I’m a total stranger who does not know your D or your family personally. But since I’ve been known to give lengthy lists, I thought it would be useful to sort the schools into the order I would start looking at them.
Some of the schools veer solidly into mid-sized territory (but you do have William & Mary as a mid-sized option on your list), but they were otherwise really strong in the areas of study and has the type of setting that I think your D might be looking for (or at least close enough). Additionally, there are schools (like UNC-A) that are likely to be financial safeties for your family, no matter how the financial aid landscape changes.
First Look
- Drew (NJ): About 1600 undergrads
- Ithaca (NY): About 4300 undergrads
- Muhlenberg (PA ): About 1700 undergrads
- Saint Anselm (NH): About 2100 undergrads
- U. of Mary Washington (VA): About 3700 undergrads
Next Look
- Christopher Newport (VA): About 4400 undergrads
- McDaniel (MD): About 1600 undergrads
- Millersville (PA ): About 5800 undergrads
- Moravian (PA ): About 2k undergrads
- Randolph-Macon (VA): About 1600 undergrads
- Roanoke (VA): About 1800 undergrads (seconding)
- Salisbury (MD): About 6300 undergrads
- SUNY – Geneseo: About 3900 undergrads
- SUNY – New Paltz: About 6900 undergrads
- SUNY – Oswego: About 5500 undergrads
- U. of North Carolina – Asheville: About 3k undergrads
- Wheaton (MA): About 1800 undergrads (seconding)
Deeper Look
- Baldwin Wallace (OH): About 2900 undergrads
- Siena (NY): About 3500 undergrads
- SUNY – Fredonia: About 2800 undergrads
- Ursinus (PA ): About 1500 undergrads
- Xavier (OH): About 4200 undergrads at this Jesuit school in Cincinnati
I would not call these two schools likelies for your D (perhaps toss-ups), but I just wanted to give a strong second to them.
- College of Wooster (OH): About 1700 undergrads
- Connecticut College: About 2k undergrads
2 Likes
If your D does not become a recruited athlete for soccer, your D’s academic record may raise more concerns than just the “splitter” record of high standardized test score with not-as-high of a GPA.
Did your D not take any math during junior year?
Were there no options for world history or similar? I’m unsure if the lack would impact how college admissions would view your D’s application.
This might be the hardest part of your D’s academic record for admission at the schools on the current list. Having doubled up on math at least one year, and on science for at least two years, schools may not be as sympathetic to scheduling conflicts that resulted in your D not taking a foreign language past freshman year.
There’s obviously nothing that can be done about the past record, but it’s something that your family may want to keep in mind when thinking about your D’s chances at the highly rejective colleges that are on the list.
1 Like
So this was my kid - with stats similar to but a little lower than yours (3.4 GPA, 1500 SAT, 1420/commended PSAT). Not recruited so there’s a difference. We also had no clue how the stats disparity was going to play out, so we focused mainly on target schools with I guess one low reach and one proper reach (for the stats) (they got admitted everywhere; as an indication of how unpredictable admissions may be, the school with the highest admit rate was the only one that deferred the kid, but it later admitted them). By target schools - as you say hard to know with the stats disparity - we basically had schools where although GPA was below 25th percentile, SAT was above 75th percentile. The one we denoted a “proper” reach school had SAT within (but still nearer the top) of the middle 50 (with OOS admit rate for the major reportedly around 20%). I will note my student did show a strong upward trend in grades (~3.85 junior year) and had counselor letter that late adhd diagnosis was main reason for poor freshman year grades.
Wrt to the last sentence in the quote above - check the middle 50s, but I don’t know how many lower GPA students there would generally be applying at the schools on your list. I would add my vote to those suggesting you need to add more targets, especially to the “non soccer” schools category. But -it definitely can be done, and your kid’s hook opens up a lot more doors than mine had. Good luck!
3 Likes
You might want to check out Susquehanna as a likely. They are very good to their athletes, generous with merit and we have a friend whose ADHD daughter (athlete) is thriving there. Too close to home?
1 Like
Hey @AustenNut - all good points. So for math, she finished Cal ABBC in 10th grade. The only math left for her to take was multivariable calc, which she is going to take next year. She is taking two very high level AP Physics classes this year that both involve math, as well as a dual enrollment personal investing class this semester. And, no, our history options are atrocious. My older daughter took US history for three years because they made you take regular US History before APUSH and their curriculum was US for 2 years. Still is. My current D’s year, they switched to requiring civics 9th, and US History for 10th and 11th. For 12th, she can take Contemporary Affairs, or AP Gov, which she was planning to do. Finally, for language, it’s not about her schedule and doubling up so much as there is 1 french teacher across our entire district and so there was one time block that conflicted with a major class that was less of an elective. So she is going to look to prioritize taking French III (she took French 1 in 8th) senior year or take a year of french at the local community college to ensure that she is not more disadvantaged than just graduating from this school would leave her. Our school has a lot of (IMO) “silly” requirements that preclude academic options, and limited academic options overall. So math is only required for 3 years, our 12th grade regular history option is called “Contemporary Affairs” and now English is only required for 3 years because 9th grade English is always a 2 semester class (block scheduling here so 2 credits) and they apparently just dropped the requirements from 5 credits to 4 credits. They require 1.5 credits (3 classes) for gym. They require a .50 credit health class. They require a business technology .50 credit class and a .50 personal finance class. My kiddo has far exceeded what is available in most ways by utilizing her “electives” (which many use taking classes like ceramics) by taking extra academic courses like doubling up on math or physics. I don’t know if that makes sense. Her GPA on her transcript is a 3.84, and by the time she graduates could be over a 4.1 - but that’s weighted.
Hi - not able to read the entire thread, here’s a few thoughts:
- What is your budget - i.e. how much can you pay? When you say should qualify for aid, that means little. Some schools are cheaper full price than others with merit. And you may qualify for aid, but not enought to make your budget - so what can you afford?
I’ll leave soccer out - because if she’s not on the radar, and she only played JV rec league, I’m not seeing recruited.
So you need the budget but let’s look at the accomplishments and schools:
Dickinson - likely
Bates - only if ED, otherwise no - needs another FL year.
Brandeis - 50/50 - French would help.
Wellesley - no
Bryn Mawr - need aware - what can you afford? If not too much, maybe.
Case Western - unlikely
Clark - depends on need (how much)
F&M - 50/50
Haverford - no - and need more French
Hamilton - no
Oberlin - maybe
Smith - no
Union - possible / 50-50 - depends on need
Skidmore - unlikely - and not a STEM choice in my opinion
Vassar no
Wesleyan no
Colorado College no
W&M no
Lehigh - no
Davidson - no
Lafayette - possible
Richmond - no - and for STEM…..ehhh….it’s loaded with business kids. If Bucknell isn’t good for you…..
I hear ADHD and wonder why Hofstra and Marist are not on your list. They both have top level supports.
I think you need French (but don’t need MWC).
First one I thought of is Wooster. Seocndly, Allegheny. You don’t want W of Ohio but Kalamazoo is not that far from Ohio. K could work and has a high PhD rate - so likely good for grad school. Wheaton in MA,. Washington College in MD. You might look at PA schools like MIllersville and more or some of the SUNYs like Oneonta or given the LAC bent Geneseo. In Virginia, Mary Washington and Christopher Newport can work - both with an LAC bent.
But first things first - you need a budget - what can you afford?
And then fill out an NPC or two and see if they agree with your budget. Here’s two.
3 Likes
I feel like multiple Cs in English and history are going to rule out some of those schools for soccer in pre-reads, honestly, especially with only 1 year of foreign language possibly no math in 11th?. These are liberal arts schools. I know someone doing pre-reads at a higher-acceptance-rate but similar and somewhat overlapping LACs right now (different sport, admittedly), and it is pretty harsh from what they have told me. Their child had a rough 9th grade for good reasons, and not sure it matters to schools…That said, they will read yuor HS profile in depth, and maybe there is something I am not getting.
Check out Wesleyan profile - % through year 4 of a language (and I suspect most took at least 3 years in HS, many 4), and % in top 20% of class: Application Process | Wesleyan University for example, I would expect most peer schools have similar stats. (note, if you absolutely couldn’t take language for some reason, your counselor should note it).
I think Clark is a GREAT match, Wheaton, Ithaca would be potentials, as likely buckets.. I would maybe say Marist but that is not very creative vibe….FWIW WPI is pretty creative nerdy IMO, not business nerdy if that makes sense and I think it actually describe a lot of what you are saying - I think I heard everyone got in to med school last cycle? Nurturing Future Physicians and year before it was 90 That is crazy high
1 Like
none of that actually seems tha unusual to me 
3 years of english is weird, but 3 years of math as a requirment isn’t.. colleges still expect you to take 4 etc.
now if things aren’t available because of conflicts you need to have counselor spell that out, write it FOR them if you have to.
Yes, that is what all kids looking at selective schools do.
She will land somewhere lovely, I am sure. She has solid test scores and a solid GPA, but the super selective schools, at this point, really want top 10% rank (if rank is published - which is rare in much of the country!), and nearly all As. It is rough. That said, the colleges DO look at schools in context- familiarize yourself the school profile - if it is NOT accurate or up to date, try to get them to do so it makes a HUGE difference.
3 Likes
@tsbna44 and @L_NewEngland Thank you for the thoughtful replies and info. To clarify, she IS in recruitment right now - talking to coaches, sending reels frequently, visiting campuses, and they are interested. She plays high level club soccer in the top recruiting league in the nation, and ditched low level HS because not good quality. She plays Varsity Singles for HS Tennis team. Has a soft offer from a school that is a “no” on your list - they want to see her SATs to make sure they can submit for pre-reads, and it’s definitely possible that the pre-read will be a no (that’s why we are here), but as explained, the standard seems to be more “can be here and be successful” than “would get in independently.” Financials are not an issue, meaning NPCs routinely give us an amount we can cover from our college savings at even the 90K schools. She will be getting a third year of French in (first was in 8th, so it’s French III), either through the HS or through dual enrollment. She doesn’t have “multiple Cs in both subjects” but one C in History (a notoriously difficult subject for ADHD time blind kids) and, in the same semester - S2 in 10th - a C+ in one English class where she missed a B by 1 point (but she had As freshman year in both subjects and B+ in both so far this year). She also was taking 4 AP classes that year and had taken zero in 9th, so was learning to juggle. The prelim guidance we got from a high academic soccer school we asked about it was that they are not pressed about the Cs when they are deviations and/or have explanations. Not sure if this is accurate, but I’ve also heard that the preference for the “well rounded” student is no longer prevalent and that schools appreciate students who go long in their passions. She did a summer precollege in microbiology at Smith last summer for example, and has taken every science elective offered except Zoology. Also, for the question about math in 11th, she could not have taken a math because there were no maths to take. She had already taken them all, through to two 4s in Calc ABBC. There is only multivariable calc left and she elected to take it senior year because she was taking very hard physics courses in 11th (AP Physics C and AP Physics E&M). If she took MVC in 11th, she risked not having rigor for 12th and looking like she was skating. So…not sure what we should have done there. Appreciate your list, and related thoughts! SUNY Geneseo is one I didn’t have on our list that we may investigate further. Thanks again!
The feedback from coaches, and then admissions, is what you should continue to be focused on for the athletic recruiting schools. If the coach wants the student athlete and feels the transcript is OK/will submit to admissions, that’s all you need to know. Of course, admissions will have the final say, but coaches tend to not be wrong about what will fly with their admissions staff. Note I am talking about schools that have the traditional athletic slots with full coach support. Like MIT, CMU does things a bit differently. Your D always wants to be asking something along the lines of ‘what proportion of your recruits with the same level of support you are offering me are ultimately accepted?’
Of course admissions at the non-varsity soccer school list will be a different story. For those wanting to be recruited, it’s important to still get some apps in for rolling/early action rounds in tandem with the recruiting activities which can go well into October before the dust settles.
5 Likes
Your D sounds like a great student and a wonderful person.
Again, soccer recruiting not my area…. but I would encourage you guys (include your D in the discussions) to get a clear-eyed view on how much support/scaffolding she has gotten from the family during HS before you get too deep into some of the “mega competitive” schools on various lists. It is hard sometimes when it’s your own kid and your own family dynamic to compare “this is typical, right? other families do this with their HS kid, right?”.
Even at a school with fantastic support, your D is going to need a LOT of high level executive functioning to manage class attendance, labs, review sessions, showing up at office hours when needed, practice, games, travel time, doing laundry and buying detergent, getting enough sleep AND waking up in time for that 8 am lab which is a lovely but brisk 20 minute walk from her dorm.
The kids I know who have crashed and burned in college were honestly terrific and smart students. So no “academic” issues per se. But it was the day to day calendering and scheduling and time management and not living on granola bars and lattes that got them in the trouble. The RA does NOT wake your kid up every morning. Professors don’t walk you through the library to show you how to access a non-circulating journal article. Librarians do this- and very eagerly- but they need to be asked, the student needs to anticipate the deadline, not show up the afternoon before the midterm when 10 other students are ahead of them.
Good luck. She sounds terrific!
2 Likes
I don’t know if @GKmom23 is still around, but she may have some insight about what it’s like at Clark for its soccer players.
3 Likes
It’s hard to not find this eerie and prophetic. If she ends up at Wheaton (as my oldest D ended up at your similarly worded suggestion 2 years ago), I’m naming you the Wizard of CC. 
2 Likes
Best of luck.
1 Like
“I’ve got it mom.” We battle over her “thinking” she has it, but then she walks out the door without her english book, or her lunch, or her gym clothes. So she has to come back after a “don’t you have gym today?” prompt out the door (glancing at her non-sneakered feet). Trying desperately to get more independence online. She won’t crash and burn for sleeping through things but she might drift through not having a passion yet for anything, and having “arrived” at the destination she was driving at for years, she may relax too much (without keeping GPA preservation front and center if she, for example, wants med school). She’s a crusty and tough bird at times - but smart as hell and beyond determined, so i know she’ll be OK. She just might choose to scale the mountain side without a net because she thinks she can, fall and break a few bones, but keep trying, without taking the perfectly pleasant and unchallenging brick path someone built already. And if you even suggest there’s a brick path, she might just move to a more challenging area of the mountain, or suggest she doesn’t even want what’s at the top of that mountain anyway. You just never know what you’re going to get. So I often just have to kind of build the brick path WITH her, so she’s involved in it, and let her lay the pathway while inconspicuously setting bricks in front of her for her to place. Not sure if that makes sense…but it’s what this stage of life with her feels like.
1 Like