MATCH ME: female STEM (math/science/pre-med not CS) with ADHD, 3.4 UW/1380 SAT [PA resident]

Chance Me / Match Me
41

Hi, My daughter is now a junior soccer player at Clark but had a very similar list as your daughter. She was an ECNL GK but undersized, had D1 and D2 offers but wanted an urban setting, political science, and prioritized study abroad and academic options over settling for a d1 or d2 that wasn’t a good fit. We also required that costs be under 20,000 per year total without loans.

Clark has been an amazing fit for my daughter. Love the coach and the players. Very close knit and socialize with all the other sports teams. They live together, go out together and all the juniors are now abroad for study abraod and they have met up at various locations throughout europe (my daughter is based in Berlin with two male soccer players). The team just did 10 days in Portugal for pre season and played 3 semi pro teams while there. Most of the players are ECNL-RL level or DA. There were cuts last spring. Academically we are very happy with her experience. Athletes get priority registration, an additional advisor, and get on campus early. Last spring she had an internship with the DAs office in Worcester and the coach was accommodating. Facilities are ok but there is a dedicated weight room and training staff, with no football team they aren’t sharing the field, and most games are within 2-3 hours of Clark in the competitive NEWMAC. Financially my daughter will graduate debt free with me cash flowing around 5,000 a year after using about 6,000 per year of her 529 plan. She has over 58,000 in scholarships and grants per year. She is the president of the pre law society and on the SAAC exec board so she has thrived but Clark is urban, small, and a libral arts focused school although many teammates are STEM majors financne and business seem like bigger groups.

My daughter was also recruited at a lot of the schools you list…but honestly Clark seems like an outlier and very different location wise from the list below. I would consider adding Grinnell, Wooster, Ohio Wesleyan, WPI, RPI, Conn College, and maybe some of the PA d2 schools like Gannon

chools Being Considered for Soccer

Bates and Bowdoin and other NESCACs - very different campus then clark, finanicals were similar, coach support was very competitive.

Brandeis - has a former club teammate there, lots of travel for UAA conference and the whole team doesnt travel. Lots of transfers out during these past 3 years, school is great, location is solid, facilities are great, atmosphere on the team is questionable

Wellesley - daughter plays them in the NEWMAC, great school, expensive

Bryn Mawr - was recruited but didn’t like location or vibe, wanted more urban. Lower soccer level then those listed above

Case Western - we are from ohio, many of my daughters former club coaches have coached there (she played with ISC) and teammates play there. Great school, competitive soccer

F&M - offered, but did’t like the coach or vibe on campus, much more preppy and isolated then Clark

Haverford - similar to Bryn Mawr

Oberlin - great school for liberal arts, not sure about STEM, isolated location without a car, lower soccer level then others listed, expensive

Smith, Wesleyan - plays them in NEWMAC, good program, great school

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42

I think you stop the prompting now, while the stakes are very low. Based on what you’ve said, she actually DOES “have this”; she’s just in a zone right now where you are the reminders, safety net, etc. She’s got a phone, she knows how to set alerts and reminders– that’s now on her.

I think the drifters in college are the ones who either got told “you are going to college, Missy, better deal with that now”(which does not sound like your kid….) or the ones who fall in love with parties, online poker, and the 24/7 restaurant delivery which is a modern college campus. Someone is ALWAYS getting sushi, pizzas, wings, etc. and there is ALWAYS an endless buffet late at night. That leads to the drift- why take your anthropology class seriously when the socializing begins in an hour? I think you can trust your D that if she takes a bunch of cool-sounding classes freshman year she’ll find her way.

“protecting” her GPA sounds like a very low priority. Most kids who think they want to go to med school don’t end up applying; there are hundreds of fantastic and interesting careers for people who love math and science that are not called “doctor”. Having her get a rigorous and interesting and mind-expanding education seems like a better focus than figuring out how to help her play her sport, get the grades required for med school, make friends, get involved in cool stuff on campus or the community, etc.

Lots of kids get B’s and C’s in college and still end up in satisfying and challenging careers, despite what you read on CC!!!

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This is fabulous info - thank you so much! I have Clark on her list - we weren’t able to attend the 3/7 ID clinic due to conflicts, and we just haven’t lined up for any events thus far. VERY interesting info about Brandeis. We liked Bates’ assistant coach but were hesitant because of some “2aday” reports of the head coach being a potentially toxic guy, but they just announced he’s leaving, so that’s great but also like “huh” for this recruiting year. I had both WPI and RPI on my list but my daughter thinks she wants liberal arts schools not polytechs…I may make her look at WPI anyway because they do seem to be doing something right in med school acceptances. Wooster is newly on my list at someone else’s suggestion, and Grinnell we had reached out to a while back but did not get any response (maybe thinking we were GUDs). Wellesley has a new coach who we love, and who seems to like my daughter, and she LOVED smith from a pre-college program yet Coach there has not been very responsive, maybe because doesn’t need her position, or is waiting for superstars to wander into Smith academically? Not sure…the recruiting piece is a dizzying layer to try to superimpose (because she’s a college first student and won’t go to a school that doesn’t fit just to play). How did you stay sane?

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it was a long and stressful process. the good news is that after prereads were done may/june after her junior year the stress went away and once she committed she had an easy senior year both acadmeically and soccer wise

45

Maybe I missed it, but have you used the NPCs on all of these schools?

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It is so complicated and stressful, for students and parents alike. Coaches who were responsive all of a sudden become non-responsive and vice versa, coaches leave their position, which often at smaller schools, delays recruiting. It’s challenging and time consuming. Just like playing a sport at a high level, the process requires persistence and resilience.

Note that for academic pre-reads, the NESCAC schools can’t do pre-reads before July 1. Coaches may request materials from their top recruits before then, but they can’t submit to admissions until July 1. Some schools will also do financial aid pre-reads so ask about that when the timing makes sense. Keep screen shots of the NPCs.

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We consistently get within the same range (2/3 cost) assigned to us, which we will be prepared to provide, but obviously a school with savings over the most expensive schools is a bonus.

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Some schools will provide over 1/3 in merit - so you have to decide what’s important. Some schools will bring cost down over 1/2 - so if budget matters, you can definitely find below $60K.

The 2nd tier privates are especially aggressive now - they are struggling financially (Clark) but need butts in seats because some revenue is better than none - and many are down enrollment wise and thus hurting financially / cutting staff - like Clark - as you named them.

I would think with ADHD - and it was brought up earlier - that supports there would be, after budget, priority 1, 2, and 3 - and would want to ensure support levels are what is needed for success - hence I mentioned Marist and Hofstra, not D3, but leaders in that area. Of course, I don’t know your student’s specific situation.

Nor do I know the campus life on schools that are cutting but simply that they are, indeed, cutting. And some like Brandeis and Clark, and more, pretty aggressively. Does that impact science and ADHD support levels - I’d research at every school - especially those on the second tier like a Clark, etc.

Good luck.

Clark University braces for a harsh new reality as higher ed recession looms | GBH

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If you end up thinking WPI more seriously let me know. My older son is a current senior there, and I love to talk about it. It’s a great school for the right person. He started as a rower there and I can attest that the coaches (it seems true across all the sports) work hard to make sure the athletes can balance schoolwork / labs and the sport. A main component of WPI is a junior year term long project - most of which are abroad. The coaches work with the athletes to tell them which terms are better for them to be abroad and they are very understanding of it, so the athletes all get to have that experience as well (which is particularly challenging for students at may other schools who are athletes and majoring in lab-heavy majors, both of which can be complicating factors.)

WPI is on a quarter based system with four, seven week quarters per year. In each quarter students take only three classes. I was worried about how this seven week thing would go for my kid (ADHD and dyslexia). It seems to actually be really really good for a lot of the ADHD kids. It is fast paced, and that can be a challenge. But you have class almost every day. Typically Wednesdays are lab days, and you just meet all the other days (some humanities classes are two extended blocks per week, but most of the science and math classes are four times a week + lab). That means that there isn’t time to dawdle. There’s no procrastinating, because you know that you have no time to procrastinate. And because there are only three classes, it’s a lot easier to try to balance and juggle priorities, because you are only adjusting for three things, not five like at a typical school. The seven week terms mean that you get in 12 courses a year freshman and sophomore year, as opposed to 10 at your typical 5 course a semester college, so it gives you a little extra room to figure out what you are doing. Junior year, as mentioned above, you do a term abroad to work on a group project, which counts as three classes (all you do while abroad is the project, and it is possible to do the project in the US, just most of them are abroad). The project is something designed to benefit a non-profit type organization, and may or may not have anything to do with your major. The purpose is more about learning to work with a client, understand what they need, and then work with a group to research and deliver a product. My son spent seven weeks in Greece last year, his group worked on a project for a client that managed an olive and pomegranate farm that employed people recovering from addiction to help them as they reintegrate into society. The farm had a great mission, but no data management system, no internet presence, no tracking or ordering process or system, no marketing plan for their product etc. None of that is what my Mechanical Engineer kid had been learning how to do in school, but he learned a lot about their business process and how to work with his team to set up all of those things. It was a great experience.

Anyhoo, all that to say, I think WPI is a great place, and I think for a kid like yours who is an athlete that is also very bright but has some ADHD/EF issues, it could be a really great fit. The kids who have been challenged significantly in HS and who pick up concepts quickly tend to do better in the fast paced setting, and that sounds like your daughter.

That said, there is no escaping the fact that it’s definitely a STEM school. There are business majors, and there are some english and other humanities majors (and there’s a pretty robust band and music presence) but a LAC, it’s definitely not. If you end up in Worcester to check out Clark (another great school) you may want to give WPI a look, just to see what she thinks of the vibe and the project based learning. I’ll say I think it’s a very collaborative place, with a lot of good opportunities to work together and work on outside of the box things. But it definitely does not have the most robust options in terms of majors and programs.

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Thank you - I really appreciate you taking the time to share all this. I am intrigued by WPI for many of the reasons you mentioned. I will double back if I can get her to consider it!

51

Has your daughter visited Richmond? The campus is gorgeous, but it seems somewhat preppy (at least to me) and I don’t think your daughter wants preppy.

I would look at Ithaca College.

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We visited in November during a soccer tournament - she LOVED the campus. She tends to look at places in the literal most basic “can I see myself here” - and campuses with natural beauty baked in rank high for her. Not totally rational, and requires lots of steering (ie, they are known for business not biology kiddo) but trying to let her hold the reins as much as possible (within reason).

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53

I am still concerned about the reach heavy list, especially if soccer does not pan out. Has she identified at least 2 safeties?

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I suggest visiting WPI. Especially if you will be looking at Clark. While it is a “tech” school there is something special about it that just makes it feel different than other schools. They also have a NR (no record) option that allows you a few classes to either mess up or explore without it wrecking your GPA. Be aware that the trimester system can be be a blessing or a curse for those with ADHD (classes move quickly, but fewer classes per term to juggle).

It’s fairly easy to be an athlete at WPI. S23 was a 2 sport athlete and it felt like he could have actually played both at WPI. It wasn’t unheard of. Because of their central location within the conference, none of the travel times are too bad.

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55

What about Muhlenberg? As I mentioned above, I would add a few likely schools.

I think it it’s important to look at the support that these schools offer as well as the intensity of the school. I say this as somebody who is familiar with several of these schools, as well as somebody who works with students having ADHD. Your daughter, who sounds amazing, will still need the skills necessary to independently get up in time for class, get there by 8, organize herself- this is due on Tuesday, I have to do this by Friday, manage labs, research groups, office hours, finish work in the allotted time frame etc.

I agree with this 100%.

I would put medical school on the back burner right now (it takes time and experience to determine if this is the right path) and put all efforts (which you are) into finding the right school and setting her up for success. That might not include the hyper competitive schools on your list.

I agree that soccer will help keep her organized, but she will still need a lot of executive functioning skills in order to succeed independently.

Just my opinion. Again, she sounds like a great kid!

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It might be fair to note a distinction. In your previous topic I posted early on with my top suggestion after considering your older daughter’s profile and criteria. In this case, I posted a little later in the topic with a suggestion of a school partly because it had yet to be mentioned. Nonetheless, I do continue to recommend Wheaton based on its excellent science facilities, its strong biology program and your daughter’s prospects for admission there. Wheaton’s creative flair arises partly from its strong visual arts programs. With respect to location, it might be considered the most distant of the Boston area colleges. I’ll continue to follow along here. Best of luck.

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57

I think they use committee letters. Their numbers may look higher than schools that don’t use them.

That being said, I would certainly research the school to see if it is a good fit!

I believe Lehigh, Bowdoin, and Case Western (among others on your list) use committee letters, and if a student doesn’t receive one it might raise questions.

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Just because a school utilizes committee letters, it doesn’t mean they gatekeep students who can receive them. At Bowdoin, Lehigh, and Case, anyone who meets the internal criteria will receive a committee letter…things like attending health advisory meetings, following deadlines and the like.

It is true that some schools will only give committee letters to students who the healthcare advisors and profs believe have a reasonable chance of admission to programs like MD, DO, etc.

Because most students who want to be premed never apply to med school, I wouldn’t necessarily make the undergrad choice based on how a school utilizes committee letters. But once a pre-med gets to campus they should meet with and follow the health profession advisors’ process starting first year.

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Would a 3.4 / 1380 student with ADHD have better odds of support at a lesser tier school from a competition POV. A Wheaton, Wooster or Allegheny as examples vs a Union, Lafayette or even Wellesley type ? I assume the more selective, the higher # of desiring to be medical professionals. Anything to that ?

The other thing - OP can afford $60k but then there’s another $400k plus. If they find a school at $40k, they can save some $$.

Of course, the support level is likely most important here I’m sure.

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However, a student with a 2.2 GPA should not expect a top-end committee letter. But the required pre-med advising sessions before the committee letter will probably convince such a student (and any others without realistic chance of medical school admission) that it is not worth the effort and money to apply.