Match Me - PA resident for English + History, PoliSci & Music. Classical vocalist spike. 3.6/33

[kidzncatz]

My choices: Pitt if she wants a larger school. With Pitt’s size, she shouldn’t worry about running into high school classmates.
Connecticut College or Franklin & Marshall if she wants a smaller school. F&M would be the warmest/sunniest (other than Charleston, which I don’t think would be a good fit), and the closest to home if she needs to get away for a few hours, a day, or a weekend.

For someone with SAD, I would avoid Rochester. I am a south central PA native and lived in gray, snowy, cold upstate western New York for 4 years. Most depressing 4 years of my (long) life. I don’t know if Skidmore’s weather would be similar but it’s also pretty far north.

If you would need to borrow money for her to attend the more expensive schools, then finances need to be a major consideration.

[beebee3]

After some more thought:

My personal choice would be Skidmore - cheapest which means you’d have $20k or so yearly to put towards sunny weather weekends.

I do think there might be issues with housing at Skidmore, I seem to remember a thread about forced triples? But, it does leave a lot of room for sunny clime travel.

[NEMom26]

@beebee3

I do think there might be issues with housing at Skidmore, I seem to remember a thread about forced triples?

Yes, when my daughter visited last year as an admitted student, they told her that all first years would be in triples (they stopped calling them forced triples, but the rooms are tight). It won’t be much better at Conn, though. My daughter was in a basement quad this year. It worked out fine, and she’s very happy there, but there’s a housing crunch at a lot of the LACs. So maybe something to keep in mind if that’s important to her.

[kaslew]

I’m team Skidmore here.
Saratoga Springs is charming. It is a community that explodes in the summer with tourists, in the school year all of that infrastructure is available to students. So many restaurants, etc. The college itself is in a lovely wooded campus that is a short drive (or healthy walk) through beautiful old Victorian homes from the center of S.S.

In terms of location/city, it struck me as MUCH nicer than F&M.

The music building is lovely, and in a sign of what type of students are there, with admissions (at least a couple of years ago) you could choose to do a special “music and arts” tour, which we saw at no other LAC.

The curriculum is not “open” like Brown or Vassar - it has more traditional liberal arts distribution requirements. I think your daughter would like this? The classes are small, and the faculty seemed genuinely interested in mentoring their students.

There are stoners, for sure, but more the “talk about capitalist hierarchies of domination” while munching on fair-trade snacks until sunrise rather than “dude, let’s catch a wave” variety, in my limited experience.

The triple room I saw on tour was much nicer than rooms I saw on some other, more famous, college tours. The campus as a whole - which I found very attractive, is generally newer, as it moved to this location in the 20th century, I believe.

Oh, and the extra money? Can pay for a lot of awesome summer experiences!

Edited to add: students regularly report they are happy, the food is good, the faculty are supportive, etc., in various surveys and ratings

[MYOS1634]

Congratulations on ConnColl, Skidmore, Rochester, F&M, all VERY competitive to get into this year.

F&M is in PA so it’s easy to cross out (plus the curriculum doesn’t match what she’s looking for).
SAD is real so I’d cross out URochester for health reasons.
That leaves 2 good options in my opinions.
Skidmore seems the best choice: curriculum that isn’t too restrictive and is really solid, cool walkable town with lots to do, music.
ConnecticutColĺege: same as above, stronger for writing but 20k more
Both are outside of PA and considering how much she wanted a “name” college, these 2 would have the best “names” (outside of UR - but curriculum structure doesn’t balance out lack of sun day after day.)

[AustenNut]

Thanks so much for the update. Your D has many great options!

Since SAD is a definite concern for your D’s health, I looked up the number of sunny days per year in the locales (or as close as I could get…Lancaster I had to use a different source which is why it doesn’t have the breakdown that the other cities do). I’ve sorted the list from highest number of days to lowest and added in Philadelphia as I think your family is living near there.

City	Partly Sunny Days	Sunny Days	Total Days w/Sun
Charleston, SC	102	109	211
Bridgeport, CT (used as a sub for New London)	99	107	206
Philadelphia, PA	93	112	205
Lancaster, PA			202
Saratoga Springs, NY	69	111	180
Rochester, NY	61	104	165
Pittsburgh, PA	59	103	162

Based off this info, I’d have the greatest concerns for Pitt, Rochester, and to a lesser degree, Skidmore. College of Charleston obviously wins in terms of sunniness, but I don’t know if it’s enough for me to rank it higher than some of the other schools on her list.

I’d take a really good look at Connecticut College and Franklin & Marshall. I’d also submit Skidmore’s offer to them and ask them for a professional review of the financial aid to see if you can get the costs down at either of those. If Connecticut College’s price comes down (based on your D’s comments about F&M’s English program), I think it’d be a super strong contender.

[tsbna44]

Congrats to her. In your first post, it sounded like your budget was $40K-ish…so if true, I would eliminate those over.

So I’d eliminate C of C, F&M, Connecticut College and then decided between Pitt, Umass, and Skidmore.

Now - if you take money out and you’re willing to stretch (and don’t forget there will be price ups although need aid might keep pace) -then I would go see them all again - and see where she fits.

Pitt (semi large) will be different than Umass - as one is in a city and one a small town. C of C will be closer to PItt but not really - not really as big. So you might like it size wise and weather wise - but it won’t be academically as strong as the two larger. That said (I’m here in Charleston now), there are a ton of smart kids as every school - and if your student likes urban, it could work. But you listed a cost - and yes, it costs a lot more than the others. It’s advantage would be that it’s larger than the LACs but smaller than the big schools - if you were looking for mid size.

I would not worry about best English department - I’m sure they’re all fine - and there’s not really a best - as it’s a tough major. All will have strong programs but you might also look at curriculums. Some may have curriculum focus or research areas that excite her.

F&M, Skidmore, and CC will be size similar but not necessarily the same vibe.

It really should come down to - what you’re able to pay - and don’t go over that - and then where does she feel best when stepping on campus - and with a nod to who has musical opportunities’ for the non music major so that she can continue that path.

She got some great admits - and no matter which you choose, she’ll have a great four years.

Best of luck to her.

[beebee3]

@arewethereyet.24

Thank you so much everyone - agree with a lot of the advice provided. I’m not worried about the money, but it would be great to have offers of aid. We would qualify for some aid I think, based on “online” assessments i’ve run, maybe 20-30/year - but a family member has offered to cover half of annual tuition and even if that offer wasn’t there, we’d take loans if necessary. So it was asked about as a “nice to have,” not a necessity.

If nothing has changed, money won’t be a deciding factor.

[arewethereyet.24]

Thank you everyone! @AustenNut, you never fail to surprise and delight. Had no idea Pitt was worse than Rochester. Also, it’s not great but also only 20-40 extra grey days a year from what she had at home.

We are doing due diligence right now, and the major actually really matters to her - much of the Skidmore offering, for example, looks backwards to her. So, rather than study Shakespeare, and have, among other observations of the work, the observation of the role race plays, Skidmore flips it in an outcome determinative way and offers a class on the role of race in Shakespearean times (including Shakespeare’s contemporaries). I don’t know that one approach is better or worse, but that approach feels more narrow, and overly specific. We’ll see.

If anyone else has any info/thoughts about differences among our 5 (Pitt, Rochester, Skidmore, Conn College and F&M), including school culture, environment, admin approach to school, or overall happiness quotients at any of these schools, or anything else that may matter to my DD, please let me know!!

[compmom]

@arewethereyet.24 can you explain why Skidmore’s approach is “backwards” in your view? I am curious about English curricula. I am thinking of taking some classes and last time I took an English class, the traditional canon (Chaucer, Shakespeare, James, Fitzgerald et al with some Jane Austen) was still being used. I get that you are contrasting, for example, race being discussed as one aspect of Shakespeare’s work versus the role of race in the works of that time, but don’t understand why the latter is “backwards.”

For my kids I probably would have prioritized Skidmore but it seems like it might not be the best fit for your daughter. So my question is also aimed at getting a better feel for her needs and wants.

[beebee3]

I, too, am a bit confused by the claims about Skidmore’s English department. I went looking at course offerings and descriptions:

English-S24-Course-Descriptions.pdf

My takeaway from reading those is quite different from @arewethereyet.24 daughter’s takeaway.

At the same time, she is the one who actually has to take the classes. If Skidmore doesn’t speak to your daughter, drop it. Again, she can only go to one school and life is too short to try to convince yourself to want something you don’t want.

[arewethereyet.24]

@compmom - I think the “backwards” is maybe a style of learning point? It feels a little like Skidmore has a point of view, and then uses that point of view to expose students to the “traditional canon” (sticking to English for context here) rather than teach the canon and challenge students’ critical thinking with alternative and varying points of view regarding that canon. It’s subtle, and I don’t know if we’re even inferring properly from the structure of the major and courses offered - but I think she is seeking a more traditional approach to learning which moves from the general to the specific and not the reverse. Again, not sure if that’s a fair assessment, but it’s the impression left regarding the English department. We’ll be trying to meet with members of English and Music departments at all schools we visit to have the best possible basis to compare all our top choices.

[AustenNut]

@arewethereyet.24

Also, it’s not great but also only 20-40 extra grey days a year from what she had at home.

I am not a weather expert, but I would suspect that the extra 20-40 days of greyness would all be while your D is in school, as I suspect the sunny days are mostly in the summer when she would be gone. Anyway, I decided to look up the number of sunny hours/month in the various locales. For Pitt, Rochester, and Philly, the source I used had hours/day and total/month. Albany’s source gave me hours/day and the sources for Lancaster & New London gave me hours/month. So for those three I either multiplied or divided by the number of days/month to complete the columns. So, the methodology wasn’t the same across all of them, but I tried.

Although the chart shows the monthly amounts of sun for August through May, I would focus on September-April as many schools don’t have many school days in those month (depending, of course, on the college).

Looking at only having 2.5-3.5 hours of sun/day for months on end seems to me like it would be extremely challenging for someone with SAD. Thus, for your D’s health, I would probably eliminate Pitt and Rochester.

Skidmore (for which I used Albany as a substitute) was a pleasant surprise in comparison with what I had seen above. It seems that they may have more cloudy days, but when it gets sun, there’s more sun to be had.

So right now, I would send Skidmore’s offer to F&M and ask them for a professional review. If their price also comes down significantly, then you could then have two offers to show Conn College to try and get a better re-eval.

But since price may not be a deciding factor, I’d have in-person visits at all three schools, preferably when she can also sit in on classes. She can see what the discussions are like, what she thinks of the professor’s styles, see how she vibes with the student body and the campus, etc. But I suspect one of these schools will be the eventual winner.

[Parent42]

Respectfully, you may be overthinking this. I was an English major, and we had a mix of broad classes and specific ones. The honors classes and senior seminars were the most specific. These more specific classes were high interest, and I think there is a trend everywhere to have more of those.

As an 18 year old, her job is to learn from the scholar-professors. If they say race played a role in Shakespeare’s works, then her job is to learn from them about it. They have the PhDs and the subsequent research and publications. She doesn’t (yet!).

[kaslew]

(I will say that if grad school in English is a possibility for her, what you describe as Skidmore’s style will be far more typical from what I have seen with colleagues. But if she doesn’t “feel” Skidmore, then cut!! And just use their financial aid offer to try to drive down CC or FM or whichever other school)

[Shelby_Balik]

Completely agree. You’re probably going to find this approach to teaching just about anywhere, other than schools with a “great books” curriculum or a classics focus (and even in classics department, there will be more emphasis on gender, race, and global history than might have been the case a generation ago). It’s just a function of trends and developments in research and student interest driving curricular options. Very different than a broad and largely standard high school approach.

ETA: I just looked at the pdf that @beebee3 posted, and Skidmore has a HUGE English department for a LAC with tons of offerings. Wow. It would be hard for a student not to be able to put together a major of interest there.

[compmom]

I am very impressed with the curriculum posted above. Fantasies of moving to Saratoga!

I am curious: does your daughter understand that there is no established canon, the way there was, say 40 years ago? The inclusion of diverse writers and perspectives is important everywhere. When I was an English major the only women taught were Virginia Woolf and the obligatory “Awakening” by Kate Chopin, and Sylvia Plath. Writers of color or other ethnicities, and topics of disability, were not included with a few exceptions" James Baldwin, Frederick Douglass, not even Toni Morrison. Flannery "O’Connor was disabled but didn’t write about it.

It is nice to see women writers and writers of color, varied ethnicities and disability actually integrated instead of a separate course like, say, “Women writers in the Romantic Period.”

My kid has taught music history at the college level, and music is far behind in terms of an inclusive curriculum. The myth of the great white male composer, unlike that of the hero writer (Hemingway and Fitzgerald for instance), has persisted through a lot of social change.

I do think most schools will have a curriculum like this. I didn’t see Chaucer at all! And there seems to be more emphasis on writing these days.

Keep us posted ! I know you are concerned with your daughter so don’t mean this to take away from that focus! Feel free to PM me to converse- I don’t want to bother you at this busy time!

[circuitrider]

Pitt would be my suggestion. She needs a big school where she can recover from social faux pas without a scarlet letter being pinned to her collar. And IMHO she needs to be close to home.

[arewethereyet.24]

I take that point - but Pitt is actually the 2nd furthest away from home of what we have (and the school with the least sunshine). UR is 5 hrs, Pitt is 4.5 hrs, Skidmore and UMass Amherst are about 4.25 hrs, Conn College is 3.5 hrs, and F&M is 1.25hrs from home. Doing a deep dive on mental health services at all schools but so far, really liking what I"m seeing at Rochester in terms of community, and Conn has had a personal touch from admin throughout this process that gives me a good feeling about it - Dean of Admissions responded personally in a very human and real way to an update about having mono in January (because, on top of everything this kid has been through, she got diagnosed with mono on NYE after being home so crazy sick for all of xmas break that she could barely function and didn’t return to school until 1/22), the head of the Conn music department there reached out to her to connect, learned which accepted student day she was attending and made a plan to meet her and connect. Need to see academic policies and/or talk to a Dean of students at all places to see what those look like in practice, but lots of things to consider.

[Baltmom23]

Given this new information, and your original post about how she had previously missed a lot of school for illnesses, I would focus on identifying which school will have the best supports for her and that likely will be one of the smaller schools. Also, easiest transport home rather than overall distance.