I was an English major 4 decades ago at Penn so perhaps my expectations and standards are inappropriately influenced by that, but they haven’t changed their approach to the historical major very much at all. My concern about the spring Skidmore courses that were posted is this - 6 of 20 pages were 100 level seminars (all super interesting classes to be sure), probably designed for the mandatory first year writing course. There were only about 15 200 level courses offered, and while the remainder of the courses at the 300 level were OK, and in fact the kind of courses that would have been “hot commodities” when i was in school because they are super interesting takes on a foundation that had already been built, there are only 12 of those and they are for Juniors and up only. Writing workshops look amazing if creative writing is your thing (it’s not hers), and Dramaturgy is incredibly cool offering but seems thrown in in service to the theater department more than the Eng major. Just seems lacking from a Literature perspective, which is her intended major. I am not writing back to quarrel but in the interests of being understood. She’s not upset at not studying dusty old white men, but at the perceived lack of structure and rigor in the literature major. Again, will speak to department representatives this weekend, and I do appreciate everyone’s perspectives!
@arewethereyet.24 - have you looked at the curriculum of English depts at other SLACs? The number of courses you’re describing per level is VERY typical of a SLAC - and 300-level classes are for juniors/seniors only because you need to have the established background of the 200-level class to be able to handle the rigor of a seminar. Remember, you need 10 classes in your major - you’re not taking only English classes in college - so it makes sense that you wouldn’t reach the 300-level classes until junior/senior year.
Well, that’s the trade-off, isn’t it? The smaller the college, the easier it will be to pick something about it apart. Again, to be brutally honest, I don’t believe academics are the biggest problem. If Connecticut is the closest college and most convenient to get to in an emergency, you’ve basically answered your own question.
15 200-level courses for the spring actually sounds like a lot - that’s a minimum of 150 students taking non required English classes . Students would only be taking 1 or 2 200-level classes as Sophomores (4 classes per semester, each 4 credits, sometimes 5 if lab - including all requirements).
12 upper level classes for 35-40 majors at the jr and sr level (so, 70 to 80 students but a lot of juniors would be abroad in the spring) would be plenty, too -probably 6-8 students per course.
That’s actually quite a lot, I’d expect 5-6 upper level English-major classes to be the norm.
It sounds like your daughter really wants the Enduring Questions program that St Olaf offers
Based on what you’ve written, Rochester seems like your top choice. If your daughter agrees and she proactively keeps on top of the SAD and any other health concerns (and the 100 inches of snow they get a year is not a deal breaker), why not go for it?
Conn College seems like a close second and might be easier to manage in a few scenarios.
I loved the idea of Skidmore when D24 was looking at it (before she changed to her current major choice), but it seems like a fit school to me and if you/she aren’t feeling it, don’t force it.
If she wants out of state, Pitt and F&M could just be eliminated if she doesn’t need to go there for another reason.
In my experience and that of my kids, catalogs may say junior and senior only but if for instance, freshman writing is waived, or you otherwise show you are qualified, often you can get in those classes earlier. Just another thing to think about.
I am curious now about the other schools’ English majors! I believe some schools have even cut the English major!
Is there a concern about having to miss a lot of classes or even being pulled out of school and not finishing a semester?
I want to go to St Olaf and do the Enduring Questions program!
https://wp.stolaf.edu/enduring-questions/courses-new/
P.S. I also thought Skidmore’s English department sounded amazing
I don’t know. D24 has chronic anxiety, managed through medication and therapy, and when things aren’t going the way she expected, can slip into depression. On balance, depression has been situational, and managed well. Anxiety is bigger “causes her to miss” issue from time to time – but triggers have been pretty understood and known, and coming off of mono, she has shown up to school every day even when she didn’t want to - it’s the “experiment” before college. Can she do this? She says yes. Gap year is not on the table for her (though it’s in the back of my mind still). What does it all look like in real world terms? I have absolutely no idea. She went to arts camp by herself this summer on a plane, managed an INSANE amount of sensory discomfort being in a gross cabin in a mass sleeping environment with no privacy or down time ever - got broken up with there, which caused a day or two of dysregulation but she course-corrected, made some lifelong friends, learned lots and had a blast. But that was a month not 9, and even there, she wasn’t sucking the marrow from the experience the way I would have liked for her, but had great social fun. So, it’s obviously a “could go either way” worry. At root, she is an intellect who wants to be challenged and thrives on the “aha” moment of learning in the classroom - but struggles with the “regularity” of day to day “sit down and do the work” school. She has had a kind of bipolar school experience – dug herself huge holes and then would have to work 24/7 intensely and with crazy go go go to dig out. That mental health variability interferes with focus, concentration, and ability to read in ways that can sometimes make performance challenging, hence the backlogs, and ultimately might mitigate in favor of a less rigorous environment (that’s what’s pulling me towards Conn and Skidmore). Disability services from all schools will, ultimately, sway us I think - because she needs the flexibility that goes hand in glove with her diagnoses. As she puts it, when she’s mentally well, she operates at a 10. When she’s not, it can be a 3. She struggles with feeling like she needs to stay in a 5-6 space so that, on average, she can bring add her 10 to the 3 and be in the same space as everyone else. She wants to be in the 10 rooms always, which also means that her 3s get brought to that table and she ends up with 6s on average. But she’s also been learning the past few months that showing up, even when you don’t think you can, is preferable to missing class. Campus Reels from students at both Rochester and Skidmore suggest that she’d enjoy the academics at Rochester more, perhaps, but that Skidmore and/or Conn could be an easier experience for her where any unevenness she experienced could be smoothed out with fewer bumps in her road. I don’t know; we are both feeling tremendous pressure to make the best decision from imperfect scenarios. Hoping for a “just right” feeling on campus somewhere…and trying to do the research we need to before campus visits so that we can maximize our time there and meet with the people who can help us to decide.
Holy cow - me too!
I guess my concern is - if there’s a chance that she’s pulled out, withdraws a semester and you’re spending big money - if you pull her out, that money is gone.
Are you able to shoulder that risk - because that could make completing college even more expensive.
I know this is the desire - the four year school - but have you thought of a junior college or smaller state college within immediate proximity of home.
Not trying to change your plans at all - just wondering, having just read about this, if there’s a financial hole you get into that you can’t get out of?
If being away from mom - and academic stress is going to cause this - college academics are stressful - just wondering if it’s smarter to mitigate from an expense POV up front?
Again, not trying to change your trajectory - just thinking out loud.
If the student needs intellectual challenges to function, community college won’t help.
2E kids really need both support and challenge.
Understood -
it just seems like from a recent writing and with stress issues - that - it has the potential to blow up financially.
I don’t know the answer but I read about long absences and anxiety.
Perhaps they just have to go with it and hope.
That just had me concerned.
I didn’t know if there’s a local to them school, maybe with Honors, etc.
But again, not trying to re-direct things - was just thinking out loud.
These are expensive schools and OP is not able to fund this themself.
I like Skidmore’s approach better than Connecticut College, with its efforts at catchy course titles (they still have a black writer’s course) English · Connecticut College (conncoll.edu) But that’s me.
Rochester looks very “traditional” Pre- and Post-1800 Courses : Undergraduate Program : Department of English : University of Rochester I might even say it looks behind the times.
As a female, I realized at one point that my education in English and history were very geared to male interests so I was on board with changes to the “canon.” I remember the first history class I took that emphasized ordinary life, and included women and children, food, work, clothing, housing etc. After all those years of military and political history. I think changes in the English curricula can be equivalent, much as I loved Chaucer!
With the anxiety issue it seems there are more pressing concerns than curricula. OUr experience was that evaluating disability offices was not helpful and even misleading. Most of the help with accommodations came from advisors, deans, professors, doctors (therapists). The Office of Disabilities (now known as Accessible Education Offices at the more enlightened schools) will give her letters to give to professors. The letters will not indicate the disability and often won’t list accommodations.
I do suggest that you research accommodations and write the letter yourself for psychiatrist to sign- if I haven’t written that before! It’s a long thread and I am probably repeating myself!
I hope the visits are productive and that the focus is as much on “vibe” and comfiness as on curricula!
OP, to me the concerns about curriculum, approach, etc are red herrings. Her health should be the top concern…and if she has to suck it up with a seminar on the relationship between Henry James and Edith Wharton (my mom’s favorite class as a lit major in 1949) then she’ll manage. It’s college. She’ll learn something even if the pedagogy isn’t optimal from her limited perspective as an 18 year old!
I would take that concern off the table. Being able to get to her quickly would be my numero uno to the exclusion of everything else. Even if the disability office isn’t operating at peak efficiency, even if the weather is less than fantastic, you need to be able to get to her quickly even at 11 pm during finals.
If her therapist knows of a support group for parents you should attend a session. Nobody with a kid managing anxiety or depression regrets being able to jump in the car with a toothbrush and change of clothes.
Wherever she chooses, she should get in touch with disability services as soon as she sends in the deposit. With a diagnosis, she might be able to get a guarantee of a single as a mental health accommodation. She’ll likely need a letter from a health care provider and will need to consult with someone at the college, but they might be able to accommodate her.
Just adding: is being close to home a priority?
I have a kid with several medical issues, and gave her total freedom of choice, but in the end she chose a school 45 minutes from home. As things unfolded, we were so glad.
I feel for you with all of us arm-chair experts chiming in
A couple of notes: First: tuition insurance is included at both of my children’s schools, so if they have to withdraw from a semester, not all money is lost (though some is still lost).
Second: I am a professor. In my experience, the disability offices only can do so much. The real key to the success of your student will be how faculty interact with students - what are the norms at a given school? Will the faculty know their students, and by that I mean not just their names, but care to know them as people? Are the classes small enough so that the faculty notice/care if a student is missing? Is it the kind of school where a faculty might email a missing student to check on them? Is it the kind of place where students feel comfortable going to faculty with their fears or concerns or problems? Often, in the schools I know best, when students start spiraling into a dark place, it is the faculty who notice, know, and start the process of getting help. I walked a student to the counseling office last week.
I suspect Conn College is this type of place, but am not sure. Some of the others might be as well.
Some students thrive in - and need - a single. I felt that it was important for both of mine, as freshmen, to not be isolated and have the opportunity to shut their doors and be alone all weekend… different kids, different needs?
Definitely. My daughter has a single as a mental-health accommodation, and it has made a huge difference for her.
And I agree with your other points, as well (I am also a professor and have also been the point of contact with my university’s student assistance resources) – faculty are often the people who first notice a mental health problem, so a school that promotes close student-faculty relationships is key. I think Conn College is definitely that kind of place, but probably any small school would be, as well.