Match Me - PA resident for English + History, PoliSci & Music. Classical vocalist spike. 3.6/33

Chance Me / Match Me
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Hugs to you and your family as you navigate this decision-making process.

One thing I would see about trying to set up (either for a visit or via telecommunication ahead of the visit) is to get in touch with students who are currently receiving accessibility services. Talk to them about their experiences with different professors, departments, res life, etc.

Additionally, I would look into tuition insurance and make sure that there is no exclusion for pre-existing conditions.

I will say that there are a lot of people here who are rooting for your D. We all have different experiences and perspectives, but I think it’s safe to say that we all want the best for her.

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My anxious, 2E daughter is thriving at Conn. She also has accommodations there. Feel free to message me privately if you want to chat offline. I’m glad you’ll be able to visit these schools again for admitted student days. For my D, that day really sealed the deal.

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@kaslew in our experience tuition refund insurance not only returns what you paid, but gives you any financial aid that was received, in cash.

Back to the original programming. Connecticut College is one of the “little Ivies,” along with Tufts, Wesleyan, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Amherst, Willams etc. I tend to think of Skidmore as artsy, but not as hipster as, say, Bennington. It really helps to get the vibe. We visited dining halls, book stores, cafes, and hung out on greens in addition to formal tours and info sessions. Also attending classes and doing overnights can be very helpful. Accepted students may have access to those, since the tables have turned and they are now wooing you.

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Thank you for getting that. It’s frustrating sometimes - sat in meetings with her HS this year where they were encouraging her to graduate early (she had the credits) and she indignantly and tearfully refused because she loves learning and loves her AP classes. The accommodation that worked for her was letting her leave school in between classes and avoid the dead down time that is so hard in HS when you really don’t want to be there. That has enabled her to treat HS like college a little bit, which is helpful.

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“As she puts it, when she’s mentally well, she operates at a 10. When she’s not, it can be a 3. She struggles with feeling like she needs to stay in a 5-6 space so that, on average, she can bring add her 10 to the 3 and be in the same space as everyone else. She wants to be in the 10 rooms always, which also means that her 3s get brought to that table and she ends up with 6s on average. But she’s also been learning the past few months that showing up, even when you don’t think you can, is preferable to missing class. Campus Reels from students at both Rochester and Skidmore suggest that she’d enjoy the academics at Rochester more, perhaps, but that Skidmore and/or Conn could be an easier experience for her where any unevenness she experienced could be smoothed out with fewer bumps in her road. I don’t know; we are both feeling tremendous pressure to make the best decision from imperfect scenarios. Hoping for a “just right” feeling on campus somewhere…and trying to do the research we need to before campus visits so that we can maximize our time there and meet with the people who can help us to decide.”

Saying this as if you were one of my siblings talking about one of my beloved nieces or nephews-- You are asking A LOT out of any college if you are figuring out how she can function in the “10 rooms always” whether at a 3 or a 6. To me this is a red flag of a type of perfectionism which doesn’t help in college. College- whether Cal Tech intensity or laid back “make your own experience” is all about triage-- sometimes accepting that a B or a C on a paper is the price you pay for getting adequate sleep; accepting that you aren’t going to be challenged to the max in every single course because sometimes just memorizing how to work the supply/demand curve is the price you pay for passing Econ 1. And sometimes taking “geology for poets” where everyone gets an A is the right decision because it’s balancing your Existentialism seminar which is thousands of pages of reading and a killer final paper.

I would really, really, really encourage you (again, with my big sister hat on) to take all of this off the table. All of her choices are going to be fine-wonderful-fantastic places intellectually some of the time, depending on the courses she takes. Really- no bad choices. I’d take the entire construct of “10 rooms” completely out of the equation. To me that’s a recipe for “crash and burn” and most of the long time posters here know dozens (IRL and on CC) of kids who have done the crash and burn.

You should not be feeling ANY pressure (let alone tremendous pressure) to make the best decision from imperfect scenarios. She should make a decision based on “this looks like it’s going to be interesting and fun and affordable” and then you all should be helping her with her goals in therapy to let go of the perfectionism, manage her anxiety, avoid the triggers, develop the blocking and tackling skills she’ll need to cope even when she’s having a “Less than stellar” semester.

I’d be focused on three things right now-

1- Where can we afford 5 years if she needs to bail (either after tuition insurance allows, or for reasons not covered by TI)

2- Which is the fastest campus to us if she needs to come home, or if we need to get to her

3-Where do the dorms/dining halls/libraries/classrooms seem to be the most navigable for a kid having a lousy week who may or may not want to leave her room for food/class/socializing.

Taking off my big sister/aunt hat-- you can do this. Just keep everyone’s expectations in check for now… worst case, she makes a sub-optimal decision, which tens of thousands of kids do every year, and they figure out a course correciton!

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Yes, this is all spot on. The “tremendous pressure” perhaps was my own perfectionism speaking. I just don’t want to have her pick a place that is a bad environment overall - whether because classmates are not supportive or admin isn’t supportive, or she doesn’t find her people (she will need to have people to keep her buoyancy up). I do think schools are getting the MI memo, and some really do have supports in place to help and address. She really just needs flexibility - the ability to be late with something or to miss a required class sometimes - to be OK. And yes, I agree, that prioritizing MH is something she already does (almost to a fault, lol). She has a better “I’m tired going to sleep” kill switch than almost anyone I know. I appreciate the care and concern in your note, and it warms my heart, truly. Thank you!

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These are some great thoughts from everyone with lots of direct experiences into these type situations (I don’t have that…but my anxious daughter finds solitude in the library each night or Honors College building when the library is closed on holidays, etc.).

I may not have the Yale culture exactly down but I know there was initially a hope for Yale and Northwestern - and I’m wondering if those rejections were blessing in disguises.

Like everyone, I await your decision - and hope that in 9 months from now we get a status report back that everything turned out A OK.

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My son had tuition insurance, but there was a pre existing condition clause. Fortunately he only had some remote conversations with a psychiatrist out of network before it all went south, so we were able to be reimbursed. We did have to scoop him up at 4 am the last time, so having him 45 minutes away was a blessing.

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Mt son has accommodations and handing in assignments late is one of them (just needs to let them know at least 24 hours in advance), hasn’t used any but it’s nice to know they’re there.

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Chiming in here as a mom of 2 daughters (one a college junior, another D24). My D21 struggled mightily with anxiety and depression for much of high school. We were wondering how she would fare in college, could she even do it. She took the lightest coarse load possible her first quarter, in classes that came easier to her (not really the plan but how it worked out). She finally (after 2 years, decided to apply) got OAE accommodations for a single room after some rocky shared room situations. Happy to say she is now thriving, although freshman year was very very tough. The school didn’t offer much support at all, but we were always available for FaceTime and phone calls and I went to visit her a few times so she could stay with me on a few weekends in my airbnb, time away from dorm and tiny shared room. She also flew home once her freshman year for a mental health weekend.

Our kids grow up so much that first year away. The mental health challenges affecting so many (really an epidemic for this generation) are being addressed by some colleges better than others. As a relevant aside, the YCBK podcast has featured a few conversations with a Conn College admissions person lately, it sounds like a lovely supportive place, I was really impressed. It reminded me of a few other caring-vibe SLACs my D24 looked at.

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Again, pretending you are my younger sister-

You do not have a crystal ball. You are not describing someone who “just” needs flexibility and I’m curious why the need to minimize- to a bunch of strangers- what kind of supports she needs.

I am not aware of a single college that does not have a process in place for withdrawing or taking an incomplete. And these days the processes are pretty straightforward and transparent. So that flexibility is there. Most colleges have note-takers or professors recording on video their class-- so missing a class is not a problem, kid makes up the work. But no amount of workarounds and systems that are on the books are going to address actual mental health issues-- where is the closest clinic that has therapists on staff who take our insurance who work with adolescent girls, who are accepting new patients? If she withdraws mid-semester due to health issues, what is the process for returning-whenever she is cleared by her health team? After an entire semester at home with a clear bill of health? An entire year? How long is the grace period for an incomplete- she has until the end of the following semester to finish the work, whenever she gets around to it, how long is her “status” as an active student maintained even if she’s not enrolled for that particular semester?

I have another 25 questions that I’d be encouraging my nephew/sibling to be asking but you get the drift (when is it too late to switch to Pass/Fail for a course?).

She will find her people. Classmates will be supportive. I think you are focused on the wrong side of the funnel…

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Honestly, based on the entire thread, I’d be looking for a more comprehensive work-up/diagnosis. This is coming from personal experience. And that would be my sole focus right now, not Conn vs Skidmore.

To address the actual topic, I think both Conn and Skidmore could be great choices for her.

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IIRC, OP’s daughter has had a diagnosis/work-up and has a mental health team in place.

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There are tuition refund policies (Dewar’s was what we used) that don’t have preexisting condition clauses.

Accommodations can include single room, note takers, extra time or tests alone in a room, extended time on assignments, excused absences and tardiness, reduced courseload, single room. These are not magic answers though. Assignments can pile up and stress can mount as accommodations are used. Most schools allow withdrawal from classes and medical leaves (that often wipe grades clean) if things are difficult. Check policies because some colleges don’t have medical leaves and some even require reapplying if a student is out for more than, say, two weeks.

It takes a year or so to figure out how to work the system and it is good to have a college or local professional involved who can talk to the dean and document things. A smaller college often works best but not always. There really is NO way to know in advance. Parents are rarely involved and she will have to figure it out.

My medical kid also left high school during “dead time.” But college was more challenging. She went to a top Ivy due to financial aid and took two medical leaves, and eventually had a reduced courseload and thrived. Just be prepared and flexible.

As for the discussion about English curricula. I wish I could link the article in the Harvard review by a student who discussed how disengaged students are from learning and how “transactional” college has become, with a focus on career outcome (and income). The student expressed regret at not spending more time reflecting, discussing and doing real learning. Your daughter may be disappointed with the focus on grades and career and peers not doing the reading or taking shortcuts. It is a reality on campuses- learning how to do well while doing as little work as possible. In fact, it is seen as a valued skill. (maybe not an unreasonable view, but too bad…) This was one article but it does represent quite a few students’ perspectives. She can find her people but again, I would focus on “vibe” and campus culture more than details of curricula.

If you feel anxious about her college start, it can help to see a therapist yourself. Many of us have done that and it helped our kids as well as us!

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Absolutely agree. An FYI about note takers. Schools most probably won’t/can’t guarantee a note taker in classes as usually note takers are class students who are paid to provide that service. If there aren’t any students willing or able to do that for a specific class, it cannot be provided.

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Again, a nice selection of choices.

I have a fairly close connection to Skidmore and have spent an extensive amount of time in Saratoga Springs. I’ve heard great things about the school, which seems to swing more classically LAC despite having programs in business and human physiology. I’m not sure what you’re not sure about, but in my estimation it is one of the top locations by way college “towns”. Somebody mentioned infrastructure and other advantages that are owing to Saratoga’s historical setting as a former Gilded Age retreat for old money New Yorkers and its status as a destination for the wealthy in the summer racing season. That is absolutely true. It is a stunningly beautiful town with nary an ugly section to be found and full of gorgeous old homes and public buildings. The architecture everywhere is amazing. Weather in SS is upstate NY. It is better than upstate locations that are further west, but they get their share of grey overcast skies.

Conn is a lovely campus in a great area of Connecticut (IMO) and a great school. I like it there.

Charleston, though I’ve never been, has I believe a lot of what SS has by way of charm and beautiful architecture. I know little to nothing about the school, but you have a parent with a child there in this thread, so that’s who you should listen to re CoC.

Rochester, where one of mine is now, is an underrated mid-sized city with a lot to offer, but the weather is overall a bit more harsh than SS. The university is lovely and offers that “just right” mix of R1 with a relatively small enrollment at 11,000.

I have no feedback at all for Pitt, F&M or UMass Amherst. Know nothing about the schools and, in the case of Pitt and F&M, nothing about the physical environments. I only know about Charleston, the city, by reputation.

If it were me, I would choose Skidmore amongst those schools. But I agree with blossom and others who counsel giving great weight to your D’s mental health struggles when choosing. You’re in the best position to know what’s best for your kid on that point.

Lastly, I wouldn’t spend too much time and effort slicing and dicing each school’s English department. I recognize that is your lane but I wonder if you can really assess at the level of nuance at which you appear to be aiming. I mean, “Vegan Stoners” vs. “Studying the Classics” … how are you going to make an accurate assessment of such generalizations? I would bet a substantial amount of money that the cohort of kids who are attracted to a small LAC in upstate NY to study English Lit will count amongst its ranks many kids who want to study the classics. And I would also bet that the departments at schools you and your D would prefer include more than their fair share of vegan stoners. You and your D may not be doing this, but don’t let the disappointment about the schools your D didn’t get a chance to attend distort the image of the ones who want her. She really does have a nice set of choices before her.

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This is very helpful. I appreciate the compare/contrast, as well as the insight about Skidmore in particular as I haven’t found many who are familiar with it. She has come a long way since September, and is genuinely happy to have such nice options - and scholarship offers at most - to consider.

I take your point about the generalizations - those “Blink” (Gladwell) assessments are really the product of the background digging we have done for student life/student assessments of what it’s like to live there, combined with the profiles of recently admitted students. It is obviously not perfect, nor a good enough data set to form action items from, but it is not nothing in my opinion. Campus Reels offer “Day in the Life” from students and, for example, Skidmore’s campus seemed to be one that students regularly leave to go to downtown SS to study in a local coffee shop, for example, which gave DD a commuter school vibe (but it could also be that SS is just an extended part of the campus).

We are definitely prioritizing mental health in our visits, and what she will need is a key focus (but being in an environment she has participated in selecting, and thinks is a good one for her is part of that). Luckily, she is actively participating in that quest - I had suggested requesting a single, for example, but she thinks she really wants to have the whole college experience. I may insist however because sleep is such a critical component of her mental health, and because I think she may be a challenging roommate for others due to variability with her mood. I think she thinks she’ll do better around others because she won’t feel as free to fall apart if she’s inclined to (and claims she’ll find places to do that if she needs to), but we’ll be consulting her team as well to discuss what we think makes sense.

I also take the point about the English department - I think she’s just looking for a better than high school feeling, where the department is exciting and lively, and not stultified and dying like the rest of the humanities. She will thrive in any English class where the teacher wants to be teaching, and is passionate about it. As for checked out students, as someone mentioned elsewhere, that will break her heart (and kind of breaks mine hearing it). Such a lot of money to spend figuring out how to not need to be there to succeed.

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Went digging and listening to the YCBK podcast now - what a neat resource! Wish I had known about it about a year ago, lol. :slight_smile: Andy Strickler from Conn was the one who sent her such a real and kind note in response to her email letting colleges know her midyears were going to be late because she had been out with mono for 3 weeks. It’s also the school where the head of the music department reached out to connect to my DD and made a plan to connect during the admissions visit.

The high sensory kids, who are also often the anxious kids, just need that alone time. I have to press her to really consider - outside of a three week camp experience - how poorly it makes her feel to have no “safe space” to just relax and be herself in. That she “can do it” doesn’t mean she should, or that it won’t deplete her limited resources.

I think the “navigating accommodations” is an entire thread I may need to start somewhere - so much good advice coming in for us to consider.

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Wondering if you would be comfortable sharing what factors from your child’s experience here cause you to suggest Skidmore instead for mine? I want to explore these options with eyes wide open - and feel like UR is currently, in her mind, her best fit match, where she thinks she’ll find more like minded students, plus having Eastman for her for music, but not sure about the humanities vibe there, nor the strength of the English Dept, nor the support of the school, nor the unstructured spaces for having fun or what that looks like. Campus Reels suggest that social life organizes around clubs and academics. Has that been your child’s experience? What other factors caused you to suggest Skidmore for her?

Thank you!

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Does SHE not understand the need to be in a location which is easy to get to from your home?

“I also take the point about the English department - I think she’s just looking for a better than high school feeling, where the department is exciting and lively, and not stultified and dying like the rest of the humanities. She will thrive in any English class where the teacher wants to be teaching, and is passionate about it. As for checked out students, as someone mentioned elsewhere, that will break her heart (and kind of breaks mine hearing it). Such a lot of money to spend figuring out how to not need to be there to succeed.”

There is not a single college on her list where the faculty is not devoted to teaching, passionate about it, etc. There is not a single college in the US where you won’t find a “checked out student”-- so ignore that as a factor, it’s everywhere, but not pervasive at the schools on her list. She cannot have her heart broken by the one kid in her Lit seminar who is phoning it in. Everyone else around the table is there to be challenged and engaged and have their ideas blown to bits.

Single, double, a place to decompress- secondary issues IMHO as I’ve already posted. I know a lot of kids who sound like your D. They typically succeed regardless of the living situation as long as the “Mom, I need to be home this weekend” phone call on Friday at 9 am gets the answer “Sure, I"ll pick you up at the Amtrak station” or “take the Greyhound to the X station after your last class and I’ll meet you halfway after work”.

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