White male in TX. Does not want to stay in the South. Suburban public HS.
Intended Major(s)
biology/biochem
GPA, Rank, and Test Scores
4.0 UW GPA (5.7/6.0 weighted)
Class rank 2/400
PSAT: 1520, SAT: 1600, no ACT
Coursework
Have 10 APs currently. 6 in progress. 4 or 5 planned for senior year.
AP Bio
AP Chem
AP Physics 1
AP Calc AB and BC
AP Comp Sci Prin
AP Env Science
AP Human Geo
AP World History
AP Music Theory - 5s on all AP tests
Has taken multivariable calc, will take diff eq next year. Has taken 3 post-AP type seminar classes. Will receive AP Capstone.
Awards
Just some local math and science type contests.
National Latin Exam Gold medal
Extracurriculars
Leadership in a couple math/science school clubs.
Will have over 100 hours volunteering. Math/science club at the middle school (his old club, loves to help out and tutor) and local library
Spent 1 summer in a selective pay to play research opportunity
Local orchestra, 5 years
Essays/LORs/Other
LORs will be strong. Bio teacher has stated “best student she’s seen in 20 years”.
Cost Constraints / Budget
We will not qualify for any need based awards. Full pay schools are fine, but merit would be great and could be deciding factor.
Looking for an idea for schools that have very strong research programs. He will get a PhD and idea is to do bio research full time. Would love recs for non-Ivies and schools that are not in the South. He would like a liberal environment. Urban/suburban, no small town or rural. If we could find a school in the sweet spot between the in-state cost of UT and the 80k+ that would be great.
Even if not - your cost statement is a bit tough - full pay is $90K. A U of Maine could be near free - thus saving near $400K.
Best to have a budget.
There are schools - BU, Northeastern, Case Western, Rochester, USC, etc. that are FANTASTIC - and have merit although maybe not for many.
There also LACs - and maybe that’s more your fancy - and there’s the big names - but then others like Wooster, etc (mid level) that do very well in research. And these schools will definitely have strong merit. There’s many of these.
What do you want in a school besides - urban / suburban and liberal. That still leaves a lot. Size, for example.
Congrats to the student - fantastic profile - there will be no shortage of opportunities!!!
State schools that should be at your price point even without merit: Pitt, Rutgers, maybe a school like Cincinnati, Ohio State
Private schools where he could possibly get merit: Rochester, Case Western, Lehigh
Schools with strong med schools/MD-PhD programs (e.g. Hopkins, BU, Duke, WashU, Vanderbilt, Emory – many in the South, so maybe not your cup of tea?) would be great.
Less selective, maybe, but highly regarded R1 schools: Michigan, Wisconsin, U. Rochester, U Washington, Pitt, UIUC, Minnesota, etc. Not sure how much merit aid will sweeten the pot at any of these places. I think UNC would be an amazing place for this major but of course out-of-state access is tough and tuition is pretty high. And again, it’s the south (but not the SOUTH south, if you know what I mean.)
I agree about liberal arts colleges – @NiceUnparticularMan posted recently a list of per capita PhD acceptances and there were tons from schools like Swarthmore, Carleton, Grinnell, Bowdoin, etc. These are tough admits for anyone, even someone as academically stellar as your kid.
I’m also wondering for a kid with this kind of academic spike if one of the UK schools might be an interesting option. I know they do holistic admissions too – but they do seem to focus first and foremost on academic competence and you interview with faculty. Would it be worth looking into Oxford or Cambridge (vanishingly rare admit but maybe your kid would have a shot) or one of the London universities?
Different variation from Swarthmore, you can look specifically for their Life Sciences list starting on Page 8:
I think both the total and per capita lists are potentially interesting. In Biology, the total list has a LOT of publics, which I think reflects a reality that this is usually an important research area for publics these days. Some of those offer OOS merit–like as others mentioned, Pitt is very strong in this area and might have merit for OOS.
The per capita lists are quite different, with a lot of privates and in fact a lot of SLACs. Many of the SLACs are also very selective, and many are also pretty rural (like Grinnell, although it is a great SLAC with merit). But there are also SLACs like Oberlin (not far from Cleveland), Macalester (great location in the heart of the Twin Cities), St Olaf (not far from the Twin Cities by my standards), Kalamazoo (in a decent-sized college town), and various others. Many of those have robust merit programs.
For private research universities, again many (on either list, total or per capita) are really selective, but Rochester (in city of same name) and Case Western (in Cleveland) are up there, and WUSTL (St Louis obviously) and Rice (Houston).
WUSTL and Rice are still very selective, of course, but at least a little less than the coastal top privates. Rochester and Case have merit.
So those are some ideas besides the usual suspects.
Edit: I just realized I should have scratched Rice from the list given OP’s preferences. Sorry!
Define “South” or the characteristics that he wants to avoid (weather, culture, state laws/politics, etc.), since not everyone has the same definition of “South”.
I note Biology is an area of strength for the big Scottish universities as well (St Andrews, Glasgow, and Edinburgh). You can see this if you look up Biology on The Guardian League Tables:
I am noting this because the Scottish universities are sorta in-between the English model (where you are very focused on a specific course right away and finish in three years) and US exploratory four-year model. Basically, in the four-year Scottish model you can explore like three courses to start, then you lock in for the last two years.
Also, some Scottish universities tend to be very welcoming of high numbers American applicants. That is in part because Americans are an important financial resource for them, but still it is cheaper than market rate US privates.
So here is a list (a little dated) of the # of US undergraduates at prominent UK universities:
St Andrews is far and away the highest. Given they are one of the smallest on the list, that is pretty crazy.
Edinburgh is then a very clear second (but a much bigger undergrad population generally). Glasgow is also up there, although after a couple English (Westminster and UCL). Oxford is OK but not nearly as high as the big three Scottish, and then Cambridge is really quite low (this is a known thing with Cambridge, not so much looking for Americans although it takes some).
For an “average excellent student” like this, with no financial need, one can either maximize top rank, or drop significantly in rank and get merit aid. The instate flagship offers a very nice combo of relatively high rank, guaranteed admission and very low cost, but other OOS publics are an affordable option as well.
Agree with considering St. Olaf. It is located in the same town as Carleton, and students can cross register, doubling their options for classes. St. Olaf’s president is Susan Singer, a biologist who is really a terrific mentor. She has launched students onto some very successful careers as research biologists.
This student would get significant merit at Olaf. If enrolling directly at Carleton would get only nominal merit ($2,000/yr) as it is mainly needs-based.
Yes - he will be NMSF, we know bc of the perfect score.
The weather and political climate are what is keeping him from wanting to stay here.
He could get some great merit at schools like Alabama or OU but he does not want to consider.
Pretty much everybody we know goes either UT or A&M. We are pretty ignorant of LACs and schools in the North.
He would like to be within an hour of an airport. He likes all size schools but is not big on school spirit and will probably never attend a sporting event. He is a very serious student and would like to be in an environment with other serious people.
He would make an exception for NC and VA (depending on if you consider these the South or not).
Our thinking is that we will not pay OOS for large state schools - because he will most certainly get into UT and I don’t see paying more for a different state school. If he ends up at UT he will leave and go somewhere else for MS/Phd.
For example, he loved Berkeley but paying OOS for the UCs doesn’t make financial sense to me. (for bachelors)
It would be painful, but we would pay for a school like Stanford or Duke (yes an absolute lottery) if it had everything he loved. Otherwise, I think a private with some merit would be a good bet.
Case Western seems like a great one to put on the list, thanks!
Will look into it! We know nothing about that part of the country.
UNC fits all of his criteria (you noted an exception for NC) and he can keep himself very busy without ever attending a basketball game. The area/campus is liberal, there is plenty of research, serious students etc. The airport is 30 min away.
The cost will likely be more than other OOS publics given you do not qualify for FA and getting merit will be next to impossible. There is also an OOS cap…but you don’t know unless you apply.
But- you have great instate options and like you said, he can go to grad school elsewhere.
He doesn’t love UT but he would go there if he didn’t get in anywhere better. He would just leave immediately after UT to continue school elsewhere. It’s a great ranked university, he just knows other schools offer better research opportunities. Are those other opportunities worth $90k? Some would say yes, some no.
You want better research universities in the bio sciences. Other than the super highly rejective, and a few OOS publics, few are better than UT, with exceptions of Emory, Wash U St Louis, Vandy and JHU. Those are still highly rejective but maybe possible with an ED.
You may want to look into Reed for its top programs in biology and the study of CHNOPS, its ultimate Ph.D. productivity and a setting that aligns with your son’s preferences.
One more thought. If there is any possibility he might decide on an md degree, consider the expense of that.
Reed College would need to be visited. A school of 600 men and 900 women would be a shock from a large Texas public school.
Has he done bio research yet? The reason why I ask is because he may not like it (or, he may love it!) or he may find other careers involving biology/biochemistry.
No he is absolutely sure he does not want an MD. Pure research.
UT is big and I’ve had people tell me you really have to create your own opportunities and hustle. I’m not sure that’s his personality. If he were to end up there the best bet would be for him to get into Honors and the freshman research program.
He has a reasonable chance at UT honors. I think he is going to have to show a lot of initiative regardless; those majors are full of competitive premeds
Yes, that’s one of the reasons we sent him to do research last summer - to find out if it was his thing. He loved it. He has done two research projects at school and will do a big one for AP Research next year. He geeks out over labs, I don’t get it. ha ha.