Match my HS junior with goldilocks list – engineering/physics programs for strong student not interested in organized athletics, Greek life, religion, or politics [NC resident, 3.9375 GPA, 1410 PSAT, top 16% rank]

Chance Me / Match Me
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Demographics (location, residency, HS type, legacy, US or Int’l, gender, etc): NC resident, male public high school junior, not looking at any legacy applications other than Purdue

Intended Major(s): engineering or physics, but not set on that

UW GPA, Rank, and Test Scores: PSAT 1410, 3.9375 unweighted/4.3125 weighted GPA, ranked 78/513

**Coursework (college coursework for transfer applicants):**IB diploma track and three AP classes (5 on history test, 4 on Env Science, hasn’t take precalc AP test yet)

Awards: German student award sophomore year

Extracurriculars (incl. summer activities, competitions, volunteering, and work experience): member of Nat’l Honor Society and German Nat’l Honor Society; independent electric guitar study; 25 hours required each year for volunteering (outdoor cleanup, mulching, weeding, food banks, special needs camps)

Essays/LORs/Other

Cost Constraints / Budget: $260k sitting in 529s, family can pay additional fees but will be happy with any merit

Schools including Safety, Match, Reach (include ED/EA when applicable)

What I would consider Safety, Match, Reach, and already ruled out:

Safety: U of Dayton, Purdue (legacy), Auburn, U of Alabama Huntsville

Match/Reach: Case Western, VA Tech, Tennessee Knoxville, Lehigh, Pitt, U of Rochester

Reach: WashUSL, Rice, Emory

Ruled out: Duke and any other NC school, GA Tech, CO School of Mines, Tulane, RPI, Olin, Cooper Union, Arizona State, Rose Hulman, Northwestern, Minnesota Twin Cities, Rhodes, Vanderbilt, any of the big names (MIT, Carnegie Mellon, Ivies) and anything in California or Florida

Want more details??

Looking for non-NC schools to add to the list to consider. My son is a strong student in a socially and academically obsessed high school, class size around 500. He’s doing well in the IB diploma program (especially enjoying his physics, English and psychology classes), and will have taken 4 years of German by the time he graduates.

He wasn’t allowed to sign up for the music or film IB classes since he didn’t have prior experience (and was bummed about it), so he can’t explore those within the IB program next year. Has an interest in music, plays electric guitar, but can’t read music so plays and learns by ear.

Also had a setback when he wasn’t assigned to the highest math track after a low test score at the end of fifth grade. He’s doing well with math now, but all his friends are on a higher track, so he will have had only precalc by the time he graduates. Plus an IB math, but no calculus.

His high school requires community service hours, so he’s spent time with special education camps, outdoor mulching/weeding/trash pick up projects, and food banks. Not much else in terms of ECs, though.

He tried out the cross country team when he was starting high school, but the kids were all really fast (he always finished races in middle school, but wasn’t at the front end) and not especially friendly, so that didn’t stick. And his elementary/middle schools didn’t have organized music programs, so he never got pulled in to a band or orchestra situation.

He’s expressed an interest in engineering, energy, and physics, although his dad and I both know he could change focus once he gets to school, so we aren’t trying to pigeonhole him into a program.

Since the high school is so big (about 3,400 students), his dad is concerned that a smaller school might feel too small, so we are looking at mostly medium to large student population schools (4,000+). Would love to have strong housing options on or near campus, rather than have to rent off-campus.

Son has grown up visiting UNC Chapel Hill and NC State for school field trips, so he has a preference for schools with an adjacent active social scene. We visited Case Western, and while the program seems great, the nearby main street’s big concrete building feel was not attractive to him.

He’s never been a “joiner” but is friendly and quiet, and would prefer to be in a collaborative rather than competitive environment, and likes to work with people who take academics seriously. (He’s read about GA Tech/CO School of Mines students being competitive and VA tech being more collaborative.) Greek life is a turnoff for him, having heard enough stories about pledges bonding over the trauma of sleep deprivation or overeating/overdrinking. I think he’d be fine at a place where there are frats, but it would be better if the emphasis was less.

Politics and religion are big turn-offs, either way, so he’s not going to be comfortable at either Oberlin or Calvin. I think he would do fine at a school where religion was part of the scene, but not overwhelming.

Having endured a strong country club/privileged old money vibe at high school, he’s very conscious of overly preppy settings like Vanderbilt. And while he’s ok with a sports scene, he isn’t going to be painting his face for the student cheering section any time soon, so like with frats, less emphasis on dominating sports scenes is going to be preferred.

As for cost, he’s got $260k sitting in 529s right now, and we probably aren’t going to get any financial aid other than merit. So, cost isn’t the main focus right now.

So, super easy to make a list, right?? Haha Now ask me what I’m making for dinner….

We visited Case Western and WashU St Louis, and he definitely liked the flexibility of majors at WashU and the ginormous park next door. But I think we all know that will be a reach. Even in-state schools seem to be a reach, considering how competitive they have become. And while he would be okay being in NC, I think he would probably prefer to go OOS.

So, where should we be looking?

We have plans to visit:

NC State

University of Dayton

VA Tech

U of Tennessee Knoxville

U of Alabama at Huntsville

Auburn

Emory

Lehigh

Pitt

University of Rochester

Son has ruled out:

Arizona (too big/far away)

University of Florida (too hot)

Tulane (weirdly in his opinion not diverse enough for location….interested in what he will say about Auburn)

Minnesota Twin Cities (too cold/competitive)

GA Tech (too competitive)

Rose Hulman (too male-heavy)

RPI (too male-heavy)

Duke (too close to home)

UNC CH (too close to home)

Northwestern

Rhodes (doesn’t want to go to school in Memphis)

Reach schools:

Rice

WashUSL

Emory

Also considering:

Purdue (he would be legacy there)

Where else should we be looking?

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Consider schools where changing major is not that difficult if he is undecided.

Is he interested in studying the natural universe or solving design problems using math and science?

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If he is interested in Purdue, the Common Data Set in Section C7 indicates that “alumni/ae relation” is not considered in admissions decisions.

Also, I would not consider Purdue a “safety school” for your son; you might want to look at the Purdue Data Digest, here, https://www.purdue.edu/datadigest/ and click on the links to “Applications, Admits, and Matriculations” and “New First-Time Beginner Profile” for interactive charts that might help give you/your son an idea where his numbers place him with respect to recent matriculating students at Purdue.

Clemson might merit a look; and a bunch of kids from my children’s high school went to the University of South Carolina (the “other Carolina”); at least one or two did engineering there.

I will also mention Michigan as a possibility, if you are going to visit any schools in the Midwest. My son and I visited there, and he loved it; but the thing that kept him out, in my opinion, was the fact that his GPA was based on too many B+ classes. This is relevant because Michigan recomputes GPA by ignoring plusses and minuses; so a B+ is considered a B, and an A- is considered an A. Michigan might be a reach for your son; but the engineering campus was pretty amazing.

Also, I am going to send you a PM.

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If you are going to look at U of R you may want to check out RIT. It would be a likely for your son. WPI is another tech school with a more friendly vibe (according to friends’ kiddos that attend) - there are frats but they aren’t the traditional kind (much nerdier) and they offer good merit.

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But at WPI last year’s freshman class was over 70% male

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Got it. Is it 70% male overall or just the one class?

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The past few years were trending closer to equal, something like 55 or 60% male, I understand. At the beginning of this fall I heard class of 2027 was “over 70%” male, but I have heard other parents say it was actually almost 80%. Whatever it was was a notable jump up. The word on the parent Facebook group is that the past few years the school had been giving extra scholarship money to women, but they stopped that with the class of 2027.

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Sounds like a large state school would be perfect in offering him great variety and different people to meet-your counselor will know if NC State is likely with that profile and your school may have Naviance to compare your son to other applicants. Alabama, Auburn, maybe Clemson all seem like good fits. I don’t think Rice, WashU or Emory are possible for a kid outside the top 10% at his local public school absent a hook.

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Cincinnati may be worth a look if your son is open to OH and co-ops.

My Purdue grad thought UMD had a similar vibe and she also liked Lehigh and RPI.

I will echo Gandalf that Purdue doesn’t consider legacy and for engineering, definitely not a safety school, especially without calculus on the transcript.

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My kind of family - going to visit a million schools.

So the first thing is - if engineering is a possibility, then you want to go to schools that have engineering - so you noted Oberlin/Hope would be out - and I understand that’s from a political perspective, but it should be from the perspective I brought up.

Not interested in Greek Life but you have Greek schools on the list - but you know you can avoid not partake and still be ok.

A 3.93 GPA and a likely good ACT - I’d say this with your current list:

Safety: Auburn yes - if you apply early rounds but not if you wait. Purdue, likely but let’s call it a match.

Match - UTK is a safety as is Pitt should you apply early enough. CWRU, Lehigh and Rochester are unknowns - as they see to game - so they could be or not be - they love ED. But yiu can’t say match whereas a Syracuse you could - but if UMN is too cold……

Reach - Emory doesn’t have engineering - so I wouldn’t consider it.

So there’s so many ways this could go - you have UTK, so why not Alabama, Arkansas, Kentucky, Florida, UGA, etc. Some will have merit - which even thought you have an OUSTANDING 529, you are open too - and frankly you can add other schools to this list - let’s say Big 10 - so your Minnesota, Ohio State, Penn State, Illinois reach), etc. etc. but have to be mindful of the cold.

If Arizona is too big - then many of my suggestions just above - and some on your list will be out as well. That said, it’s a physics powerhouse. But I would argue that you’re going to see WUSTL or Rice - so what’s the difference other than other 2 hours on a plane? Colorado is another strong in physics/engineering. Miami Florida is a mid size sub that’s closer.

So if you say - no big big schools - maybe it’s a Pitt, Ms State, SUNY Bing, UNH, UVM, Maine - smaller large schools Miami Ohio and Delaware too (these are 8-22K or so). Again have to pull the too cold ones though.

Now you have UAH - so if a school like that works - how about Missouri Science & Tech, Tennessee Tech, Florida Tech, UT Chatt, Marshall.

Now you mention some LACs but again, not ones that offer engineering - so you should look at Lafayette, Union College, Tufts (reach), Manhattan, Bucknell, and maybe Randolph Macon.

I thought I read somewhere School of Mines - but can’t find the comment. It’s excellent - but I saw MN is too cold - so maybe you need to go South - which will be more greek-y but many live a fine life sans Greek. Mine did.

Lots of options.

I think the math / pre calc is a minor big deal. It may eliminate top flight schools but many will still take him.but I do think - if engineering is a possibility, and since you can’t apply or consider 300 schools even though you seem to want to - but that’s an easy cut as are cold schools.

No engineering, no consideration. That’s how I’d do this.

Hopefully that’s a little help.

No doubt the student will have many options.

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Agree. Purdue, out of state, for engineering is a reach school. I know quite a few very strong students - think close to a 4.0 unweighted, 1500ish SAT scores - who were deferred from EA and then ultimately rejected. It’s a very tough admit these days.

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I think, if the student ends up in engineering, there will be a huge male bias regardelss of where they are.

They may not end up in engineering - but if they do, in most cases, their immediate surrounds would be male slanted.

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The lack of calculus may be an issue some places. Our high school has a similar math track and that once you’re pigeonholed in ninth grade you can’t move up, and if you drop down, then you can’t move back up. It’s really unfortunate. I might even consider having the counselor explain that in his counselor letter, because without an explanation, the schools that say they want you to take the highest rigor available in math and science, for their engineering admission might rule him out without having the full picture. If he applies to Auburn, he needs to apply by September 15 to get an early decision. Unless it’s changed, there’s no essay so that’s easy enough to do. Same with Clemson - no essay except for honors.

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On the calculus subject… which IB math will he be in? A&A is preferable over A&I for those who will study more advanced math in college, and HL is obviously more advanced than SL. A&A HL is most likely to give advanced placement in college.

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If you’re looking for likelies:
WPI
UMaine
Iowa
Union

If you’re visiting U of R, I’d definitely take the time to visit RIT.

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If you are attending university 5 miles from home, and if you live on-campus, it will be like a completely different world compared to living at home. You will spend evenings in a dorm surrounded by your fellow students. You will decide for yourself when and whether to do homework or go to dinner or hang out with friends or whatever.

Then if you get sick or have a bad breakup, help is nearby.

As a graduate student at Stanford, one of my best friends was a UNC graduate. He was one of the stronger students in the program, and was a way better squash player than he looked like he should have been.

I would send in an application just in case nothing else comes through, is affordable, and seems appealing.

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I would encourage you/your s to focus on what he DOES want, not what he doesn’t. Otherwise it’s too easy to have a negative slant on schools before giving them a chance. That list of “too small, too hot, too Greek… “ etc was starting to sound too much like your title- Goldilocks and the 3 bears. Maybe he can consider having maybe one or 2 dealbreakers and then try to have an open mind about the other stuff.

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I cannot agree with Jym’s post enough.

It is so easy for a HS kid to tag a school based on the paradigms they know in their daily life- too nerdy, too preppy, too artsy, too many jocks, too many theater wierdo’s.

College REALLY isn’t like this. Kids in college sing in an a capella group AND run the “coats for the homeless” campaign in town AND write for the muckraking newspaper which is routing out corruption in the building trades. Kids are on the swim team AND teach salsa dancing every Monday night and are majoring in music theory and minoring in geology. And even kids in the “we have a monoculture here” colleges soon discover that this is untrue. My MIT kid had zero interest in computers or robotics or any of the things MIT kids allegedly loved, and his close friends and roommates were concert violinists and gymnasts and poets and ROTC cadets and gourmet cooks/pastry chefs.

Agree with JYM. Pick the one or two non-negotiables, and then keep an open mind on everything else. Many of the Catholic colleges have devout Buddhists and avowed atheists (and kids who don’t even care enough about religion to check a box) and some of the “preppy” schools have the same Boho “save the planet and recycle your Kleenex” kids like every other campus.

I think it’s great he’s conscious about money/status, but he may end up surprised by what he sees. Some colleges have a lot of kids with a lot of money but everyone goes to $3 movie night in town on Saturday nights because that’s what you do- and there aren’t ways to impress people with how much money you have because nobody cares. There are kids on free lunch who are obnoxious and entitled, and kids whose parents own private jets who are down-to-earth and kind and generous and you’d never know they grew up wealthy.

You can pitch this as a cool sociological experiment- test out a bunch of theories about “this school is filled with prepsters” and then go and visit!

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We are definitely looking for those schools where changing major isn’t difficult. As for your other question, I get the sense he likes solving problems and making unusual connections.

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Thanks for the suggestions! I had thought about suggesting he look at RIT and WPI (we have a friend who had a great experience at WPI), so I’ll take another look at those.

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