Match my kid: Psychology & Music, top student with NCP CSS concerns [NC resident, 4.0 GPA, 36 ACT, <$45k, no FA if NCP finances are used]

Chance Me / Match Me
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Demographics
current HS junior
US domestic student
NC resident
public high school

Major/focus
intended major: psychology
WITH double major or possible minor in music
NOTE: intend to be a clinical psychologist eventually, but continuing to perform is an important life value.

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores
unweighted GPA: 4.0
weighted GPA: 4.5 (APs +1, honors +.5)
class rank: unknown, but likely in the 100s
ACT score: 36

Coursework
6 APs so far incl. World History, Gov, US History, Psych, Music, Language
4 more next year: Lit, Comp Gov, Stats, Computer Science (Principles)
took pre-calc but was more interested in English/History APs so did not take calculus. will take Stats.
Band each year (3 years of jazz band), theater freshmen year

Awards/Extracurriculars
Very active in marching band and musical theater

Band awards (so far):
most outstanding marcher awards freshman & sophomore years
tapped for progressive leadership roles in marching band
entire band won awards at a competition last year
*Good chance of being tapped for drum major next year (if not, certainly band captain)

Theater:
assigned major roles in yearly musical each year.

Honors societies:
National Society of High School Scholars
Tri-M music fraternity
National Honor Society

Volunteering:
Community coordinator for local food pantry organization
Religious education caregiver (paid)

Essays/LORs/Other
5s on both AP tests last year & a 4 on the year before, so hopefully high quality. Also, has access to good editing/reviewing support.

Cost Constraints / Budget
unique situation: NCP won’t help pay for college & he earns a LOT. Without his income, family qualifies for enough aid to close any gap. We’ve been looking at schools that don’t require NCP income but they are very rare (Vandy, UChicago). A waiver is not necessarily a strong hit (NCP is not incarcerated/no protection order). Divorce was 15 years ago, no contact in about a year. Custody indicates an every other weekend schedule with minimal holiday visitation, but NCP waived that right in a supervised communication platform. Due to problematic behavior, NCP custody of older sibling was lost years ago (which is documented).

What are the chances with a NCP waiver & how do those chances vary across schools? Which schools are the best match with/out that consideration? (Musical performance at Ivies seems potentially less than at state schools?)

Schools

  • Safety: (UNC-CH? Any regional: UNC-G, etc.)
  • Likely: UW-Madison, U Maryland, UNC-CH, Rice, Oberlin
  • Match: UNC-CH (EA)
  • Reach: Harvard, Yale, Vanderbilt

–not certain about these & could use advice–

Most private colleges don’t offer merit scholarships but would likely provide ample financial aid if NCP income is not factored in. We can afford in-state UNC-CH & similar costs elsewhere.

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OOS tuition at Madison will likely still be very high.

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I’d remove the first honor society. The others won’t move the needle really either but I think most students get the invitation to the first.

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Hmmm - most privates do offer merit - and a lot of publics offer substantial merit as well - but not a UW, UMD (looks like this year up to $17.5K) nor UNC but you are in state.

To me, just from having read on here in the past, if you are going to partake possibly in music as a major, that has to run the decision - because from what I’ve learned from those expert in it, academics matter but often times not as much as an audition. Also, I’ve read many folks talk about the type of instrument or music you want to be involved in - because certain schools have known teachers - and they may or may not be the big named schools.

I would find the right school for music - and affordability - and if you want private, there’s a ton!!

Is / will this student be a national merit finalist? That opens financial doors too.

Psychology can be studied just about anywhere. The course breadth may not be as wide at some places - but and others can correct me if I’m wrong, but given the music possibilities, I would let that be at the forefront of my decision making…in addition to school size, environment you want. And frankly, to be a clinical psychologist, I don’t think the where undergrad will matter much.

For example, let’s say you want a smaller private - and you have UMD on your list - but then have you looked at a St. Mary’s of Maryland (public Honors college) which has a music minor.

And many many many privates can get down to the $40K range with merit - or with National Merit - if it exists - $0.

So set a budget and desire - and go from there. Not really sure how to read your budget situation - so you need a price - this is what the school can cost.

PS - can you define class rank - when you say in the hundreds - like 300/800 or are you saying - like 1 out of 800?

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I see you have UNC listed as a safety, likely, and match.

What is your school’s acceptance history to UNC? I would look at that information and also keep in mind that where you live in NC will likely be a factor…unless things have changed within the last few years.

I do not think UMd will match the price of UNC, but I would apply and see what happens.

Does the NPC at Vandy and Chicago show an affordable cost?

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Vandy & UChicago don’t require NCP CSS

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I also recommend looking at the music major forum. Lots of info on their about how to be involved.

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Budget cap is $45/year
Class rank is out of 400 and typically those who focused on all APs have higher ranks. With an AP load of 10, the class rank is likely to hover around 100/400 (though possibly higher)

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…just re-read that question. Yes the NPC is less than UNC-CH in state.

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Yes…I just wanted to make sure they were affordable, but it seems they are.

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Madison will be 56k (plus travel fees) for you. I would drop it off the list. They are not known to give good merit.

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So many a school - public and private - on merit alone - can get you to $45K.

I do agree to check out the music forum. Psych can be done anywhere.

I sure hope your class rank with 10 APs is higher than 25% - but that would mean you go to arguably the most competitive school in the country.

You will have low cost options - just depends on what you want. I know music requires auditions - but for example - just throwing out another big name public - you’d have worst case (assuming a B) - under $20K a year - and if the student keeps straight As what is below at the bottom…I would argue for Psych with the goal of a future career, a flagship is mostly a flagship is mostly a flagship - so Wisconsin makes zero sense and at $45K, UMD makes almost zero sense but I suppose a hail Mary - but an Alabama (and others) but you’d have plenty of academic girth there because - just look at the #s - kids flock there for that from all over the country!! And there are others but this is an example. And this is not just an affordable safety - but an assured safety - from day one, you don’t have to worry about finances of other schools - so it takes a lot of pressure off other apps.

And there are others - so your budget is $45K - but you can have lots of offers at even less. So you can really get in for a price you want - depending on flexibility.

A U of Tulsa (if NMSF) would be close to free - all tuition/fees, room and board, etc. - and there’s a lot of the LACs that offer big merit from the Rhodes to Juniatas to many many many in that 2nd 3rd tier - and some like St. Olafs have great reps for music.

Back to Bama - your student would be all in at $20K if they get a B - but more likely $5K the first year and mid teens the last three years if they kept straight As. I’m not pushing it per se - but again, vs. a Wisconsin - this is the type of opportunity your student has earned and most importantly - with something like this in the bag it takes all the pressure off other apps where you are panicked about the aid offer - you can apply to those and if you get in and the money isn’t where it needs to be, you have that solid fallback, etc. Again, there are others that can be named too - not quite this good but under $45K for your student.

A student with a 4.0+ GPA and 36 ACT OR 1600 SAT will be selected as a Presidential Elite Scholar and will receive:

  • Value of tuition for up to four years or eight semesters for degree-seeking undergraduate and graduate or law studies
  • First year of on-campus housing at regular room rate (based on assignment by Housing and Residential Communities)
  • $1,000 per year supplemental scholarship for four years
  • $2,000 one-time allowance for use in summer research or international study (after completing one year of study at UA)
  • $500 per year Supe Store book scholarship for four years
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Thanks. I ran this by him also, but since Bama isn’t a top psych or music school, he’s not interested.

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The U of Rochester might not provide the FA you seek, but it does have merit awards and a good music program.

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The point being - when you have a budget, your first step is to find budget friendly schools. Maybe it’s UNCW. That was just an example I gave of how inexpensive you can get.

The most important school on your list is your affordable and financial safety. You read all the heartbreak today of kids getting into schools but they can’t really afford them. You need to take that out of the equation.

I don’t know what makes a top music school - I imagine that’s different thing to different people.

As for psych, let’s be honest - forget “top” psych school - the student can get to their career goals from any school in the country. And if their goals change, a psych major will require grad school of a different sort.

Back to your issue - you can name schools - and frankly UMD and Wisconsin are substitutional to other publics including Bama - but what is your assured admission and financial safety - that is the question?

Is it a UNC branch or NC State? Is it a Bama or Truman State or Christopher Newport or Salisbury or SUNY or Miami Ohio or South Carolina?

I know what it isn’t - Wisconsin or Maryland.

So you need to build in stages - and I’m taking music out (which requires auditions at many)

  1. This is the most important - the assured and affordable so I have a place to go.

  2. A place maybe I can afford, maybe not - and that’s a UMD if you get the $17.5K. Not sure why you’d choose it over a cheaper flagship because you’ll be close to budget top or at budget top - but that’s just me. You of course you do you. This might also be the Vandy, Chicagos of the world…but obviously in these cases - money is just one concern. Getting admitted is a whole different concern - but if they could potentially work financially, they’re worth an app.

  3. The meets need schools - if the calculators work out right. Again, these won’t be easy entries, some are need aware, and I imagine many will look at the NCP - but these could be like a U Miami. I’ll put an entire list below.

#1 is the most important - by far and away - and while I think it’s great to have a high reaching, high pedigree list (although many of these schools might not actually fit when they get on campus) - #1, #2, and #3 when it comes to fit is affordability. If you can’t afford it, you can’t attend - unless you want to wreck your financial future. So students don’t spend time on #1 but it’s where they should spend a bulk of their time finding a few options.

And frankly, for a psych degree, that would be potentially financially strangling in the long term - because if you don’t go to grad school, now what and if he fulfills the goal of being a clinical psychologist, then how does it get paid for? I know this - the “pedigree” of the undergrad isn’t going to be what gets him to or not to the career.

I hope he gets to where he wants - but in the end, I hope he gets to somewhere he can actually afford to attend (which is most important).

When it comes to finances - while it’s ok to let the student drive the bus, you need to be very clear up front about the max pay or your desire to pay, etc - before you even start looking at schools.

Otherwise you’ll fall into the same trap as so many others - I got into St. Olaf or WUSTL or Wake but I can’t afford the $60K or $80K tuition, etc.

Best of luck.

PS - this is a third party list so it’s a guide but you’d have to check each school individually.

Here’s Every College That Offers 100% Financial Aid (prepscholar.com)

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Another kiddo is at RIT, but the FA at U Rochester is an issue. Important to also reiterate that the top major for this kiddo is psychology.

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They have a psychology major and it is an excellent school, but I understand what you are saying.

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Thank you for this thoughtful reply. The main consideration regarding finances for many of the schools of interest will be the NCP CSS waiver. Regionals can provide a safe option also.

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Music what? Performance? A BA in music? Being able to play in an ensemble? What exactly is this student looking for in terms of music?

Psychology is a major at just about every college.

Since the NCP contributing is an issue, I would suggest that you look at schools that do not require non-custodial parent financials. At.All.

Getting a waiver…you need to have a good reason, and “NCP won’t pay anyway” isn’t a reason schools use for these waivers. Typically you get a waiver if you have no contact with the NCP, can’t reach them to complete the form, or there are extenuating circumstances like NCP is in jail.

If this is a top student, perhaps merit aid should be where you are doing your hunt.

Re: music. If your student is getting a music performance degree, they will need to audition. Their acceptance to the music part will be dependent on the strength of their audition vs that of others auditioning on the same instrument.

There are also colleges that have good performance opportunities for those who are not majoring in music. Would your son be interested in that.

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Yes; he primarily wants to stay involved in music. He’d prefer a minor or double major so that there are required classes, but would be open to heavy involvement if it is available for non-majors