Math Major for an old man?

College Majors Science Majors
1

<p>Hi, sorry for the long question, but here goes:</p>

<p>I first entered college (UCLA) back in 2000. After being undecided for a year or so, I decided initially to major in Math. I enjoyed the challenge and felt I’d enjoy the major. However, I didn’t get far. I took Calculus 1 and Calculus 2- B+ and B in each. Then I had to downshift to care for an ailing relative, and it came down to trying to major in something where I’d be able to get graduate ASAP, or I would have to drop out. So I switched to majoring in History, took a crazy course lose while caring for the relative, and was able to graduate in 3 years.</p>

<p>Afterwards, I had to go into the family business because my father was unable to work. It was not something where I could gain much practical job skills, but I had no choice. Now recently the business had to be given up because of the economy.</p>

<p>So here I am, almost 30 years old, with a History BA and no practical job skills. I have the opportunity to go back to school, and I really want to take a shot at Math again. A local college told me that while they do not do second bachelor degrees, but may be able to let me in as a conditional graduate student for a Masters in Math. I’d have to do all the Math prereqs though, so it would probably take me about 3 years.</p>

<p>What I am wondering is at my age, whether taking high level university math courses would be feasible. It’s been 8 years since I looked at a Calculus problem and I wasn’t exactly a math genius to begin with. But I just have this feeling of unfinished business that I would love to take care of.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>I admire your determination to go back to school!</p>

<p>Have you thought about what do you want to do with a Master’s degree in math? Math isn’t exactly the most employable major, unless you want to teach. If you are aiming for a quantitative job, it might make more sense to study something applied (be that statistics or engineering or computer science or finance or…). </p>

<p>I have a relative who decided to go back to college after a number of years in the job market. Her first semester was rough, and she never got top grades afterwards, but she finished the degree. </p>

<p>The good news is that the upper-level math courses at your local college are probably easier than the courses at UCLA. </p>

<p>You know yourself better than anyone else. If you think you can do it, go for it!</p>

3

<p>Piggybacking on what b@r!um said…</p>

<p>It would probably be more practical to pursue math along with a more “applied” area like finance, statistics or computer science. I was a math major (undergrad) but I have always worked in I.T./Engineering. To be honest, for a Masters in Mathematics, schools are going to want you to have completed at least:

  • Calculus I, II & III
  • Analysis or Real Analysis
  • Abstract Algebra</p>

<p>…and probably a few more courses before they will even look at you for a M.A./M.S. in Math. There are some new masters programs sprouting around which are called “Industrial Math” but they are going to want you to still have taken Analysis and Abstract Algebra plus Statistics, Probability, Numerical Analysis and Differential Equations as an undergrad.</p>

<p>I would (in your case) probably go the financial or computer science route then pursue the additional math while you have secured employment in the applied area. After completing the math degree (later on) you can teach as a side job for some of the distance learning programs for engineering or computer science/I.T. Those programs always need folks to teach the require math courses because some of the tenured professors (from what I hear) do not like to bother with distance education courses.</p>

4

<p>Thanks for the responses.</p>

<p>I was looking at possibly getting a Masters in something more practical, like Computer Science. But the graduate school counselor told me they probably would not be able to admit me to that Masters since it is popular and priority would go to people with UG degrees in Comp Sci.</p>

<p>On the other hand, the counselor said a Masters in Math would be more feasible because it is less impacted so there is more space in the program. They would allow me to admit as a graduate student, but I would basically spend the first year or so doing prereq math courses I did not get to in UG.</p>

<p>Now, the math department does offer MA in Math, MA in Statistics, and MS in Applied Math. I was considering doing the latter, then maybe later on getting another Masters in something more focused like Comp Sci or Finance.</p>

5

<p>Almost 30?!? Have you applied for social security benefits yet? Come on, old man, in graduate school, average incoming students are in their mid to late 20’s. I am a 27 year old, first year, graduate student. In my department there will be a grad student in his early 30’s. If you are serious about grad school in math, your age probably won’t even get noticed.</p>

6

<p>Well you will definitely need the determination if quantitative skills diminish if you do not use them. But at the age of 30 will not be that bad even if you haven’t done math n a while. From what I have heard, studies say that after age 40 quantitative skills diminishing take the greatest impact in learning. </p>

<p>To those who say it is not practical, it is actually very practice if you understand the concepts behind it all. For example if one can do mathematics, computer science will usually be a piece of cake or even quantitative analysis.</p>

<p>But biggest uncertainty is if you understand that there is a HUGE difference between Basic Calculus and rigorous math like Real Analysis or Abstract Algebra, which most graduate programs will probably require you to take. Take the required courses and that will help develop a picture of what graduate programs you might want to go into.</p>

7

<p>What I have read is that the ability to learn new things begins deteriorating somewhere around 45 - 50 but one is still able to use knowledge learned well into the 70s. Just take a look at those math and science professors still going strong in their 60s. </p>

<p>OP, when I read the thread title I imagined you were a 60+ year old man. Sorry dude, but at 30 you are still a kid, just like me. I say go for it but make sure the investment pays off. Good luck, dude.</p>

8

<p>

</p>

<p>So do you want to take computer science without having to go through a M.S. in Computer Science program, huh? Well, probably the BEST major to achieve that IS Applied Math. Of course you are going to need undergrad CS prereqs but I can give you a template to do an M.S. in either applied math or computer science (not both) BUT you can almost do both majors within the same program.</p>

<p>1) I would go the non-thesis route because it will allow you to take the most courses.</p>

<p>2) What you want to do is divide the total amount of credits (30 or 36) into 3 areas:</p>

<ul>
<li>Computer Science Core courses (CS courses NOT in Math department)</li>
<li>Math or Applied Math Core courses (Math courses NOT in CS department)</li>
<li>Courses that are in BOTH the math and CS departments</li>
</ul>

<p>Let’s say that you are in a 36-credit program:</p>

<p>Take 4 CS core courses: Algorithms, Data Structures, Programming Languages and Operating Systems. If you were to survey the Top-30 graduate CS programs, those four courses would be mentioned the most as required for a M.S. or MEng degree is computer science.</p>

<p>Take 4 Math core courses: Real Analysis, Abstract Algebra, Linear Algebra and one of Complex Variables, Ordinary/Partial Diff Eqs</p>

<p>Take 4 courses that would count in BOTH a graduate Math OR CS program: Numerical Analysis, Combinatorics, Cryptology, Numerical Linear Algebra.</p>

<p>When you look at the overall degree, you would have 8 courses that can count to the major you choose (CS or Math) and 4 electives in the other.</p>

9

<p>Again, thanks for all the responses. A couple of points:</p>

<p>(1) I am also considering enrolling in a community college first and taking as many math courses as possible before enrolling in the Masters program. The local CC offers several math courses beyond what I’ve already taken, such as Vector Calculus, Linear Algebra, and Differential Equations, which I figure are prereqs I would have take to officially get into the Math Masters program. My only concern would be the rigor of such courses taking it at a CC.
Any thoughts on this?</p>

<p>(2) Reason for Math- First and foremost, the personal challenge aspect is appealing to me. As silly as it sounds, when I was younger I’d watch movies like Good Will Hunting or A Beautiful Mind and wish that I had the ability to be as good as math as those characters.</p>

<p>Along with that is my belief that math is a gateway into a lot of good careers that are palatable for me. Seems like worst case scenario I could be a math teacher (which I actually would not mind at all), and I could also look into further education to be an engineer, statistician, actuary, etc.</p>

<p>(3) Applied math vs. Pure Math- So the impression I get is that for either track, there are some must-take core classes. Beyond that, if I do Applied Math, I take a lot of courses that are designed to “apply” the math I know in other fields, be it finance, economics, engineering, computers, etc. For Pure math, seems like the courses beyond the core classes are more theoretical in nature, involving lots of Proofs and such? If this is the case, I’m definitely more interested in Applied Math.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the help!</p>

10

<p>

Yes, that’s exactly what pure math is about. The “core” courses in pure math, real analysis and abstract algebra in particular, will establish a rigorous foundation for the math you have already learned up to that point (calculus, linear algebra, etc). The pure math courses beyond that, graduate-level math as they call it, will expand on those concepts, in a rigorous definition-theorem-proof style. </p>

<p>If you are more interested in computing things, applied math might be a better fit for you. (Although I would like to caution that applied math at the graduate level can be very theoretical as well. Error bounds need to be proven rigorously, etc.)</p>

11

<p>Why not consider engineering? Your love for math and problem solving would be perfect with this profession.</p>

12

<p>Hi everyone,</p>

<p>Thanks for the responses. A couple of questions for you guys:</p>

<p>(1) The highest math I took was the college calculus, the series RIGHT BEFORE vector calculus. So I’d still have to take vector calc, linear algebra, etc. If on a scale of 1-10, the difficulty of calculus was 5, how much harder are the classes I have yet to take?</p>

<p>(2) Considering it’s been almost 10 years since I took math of any kind, should I just start over and maybe take calculus again at a community college? Or is it like riding a bike and will it come back to me with some self-study/ refreshing my memory?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

13

<p>(1) Vector calculus and differential equations are pretty straightforward like elementary calculus.Elementarl Linear algebra is when proofs are introduced, but at a relatively basic level. Upper division math courses like real analysis (or whatever your college will call it), complex analysis, abstract algebra, ect. will be the difficult courses on an entirely different difficulty level compared to calculus, but will vary greatly on difficulty depending on the person’s innate abilities. Even if you are a applied mathematics major, you will be forced to take at least a couple proof based courses like two classes on real analysis. The easier upper division math courses are the applied maths like applied linear algebra, partial differentiation, statistics, ect. </p>

<p>(2) I would not know since I never really quit doing math. You might need to take calculus all over again since if you don’t use quantitative skills they tend to go away. Go refresh your memory and see if you can still do it.</p>

14

<p>Bchang,</p>

<p>I was a computational math major (spin-off of applied math) and the courses after vector calculus were not much harder, but in my case (and major), how to computationally produce an answer on an exam or project was the tedious part.</p>

<p>I think we all know by now (and I have learned on this board) that the Calculus sequence can vary from school to school. Vector Calculus is now introduced either as the very last part of Calculus II or in Calculus III.</p>

<p>After that comes a Differential Equations courses (mostly ordinary Diff Eqs)…not hard. Next is Linear Algebra where some schools gets you through the basics and some schools actually have a Linear Algebra I & II. Also at some schools there is a Linear Algebra for engineering majors and another one solely for math majors. Of course the one for math majors will have more proofs.</p>

<p>At the time I was at Michigan State, I sneaked out with just Advanced Calculus as my last theoretical course as Real Analysis nor Analysis (measure theory, etc) nor Abstract Algebra were not required for comp-math majors. I have checked the program since then and Real Analysis AND Abstract Algebra are now required.</p>

<p>Other courses that I had to take included Combinatorics, Graph Theory, Numerical Analysis and Numerical Solution of Diff Eqs and Computational Linear Algebra were almost as much about proving/constructing algorithms as much as knowing the mathematical portion…more tedious than hard.</p>

<p>It depends on your emphasis.</p>

15

<p>If my undergraduate proof-based classes (analysis, algebra, etc) were a 10, then calculus was a 3. I can only emphasize what the posters above me have already said: the difficulty of courses and whether these proof-based classes are required for your major at all will depend on your college. And what feels hard to me may not feel hard to you. You will never know unless you try!</p>

16

<p>BChang,</p>

<p>We have some things in common. I’m 33 and started back on a Statistics degree last year. I went to college 15 years ago for something completely different. Although I was great at math growing up, I never used it beyond high school.</p>

<p>Fast forward 15 years and I decided to go back to get a degree in something that is relatively difficult (math based degrees are in high demand), because I work in an industry that has low barriers to entry and is overrun by competition and declines in work volume (real estate appraisal).</p>

<p>So I said to myself, get a damn degree in something that is useful for many different industries and very few people are capable of achieving. That led me to Statistics.</p>

<p>Let me tell you, it has been HARD starting back, mainly because of the math. Take 15 years off from doing a math problem and your skills erode quickly. I took a placement test for some community college math classes and they wanted to place me in remedial math…that’s how far my math skills eroded. I fell back to the math equivalent of an 8th grader. That was last August.</p>

<p>Anyway, I studied my butt off to retake the placement test, and jumped 3 levels to get into College Algebra. Then I studied Trig and Pre-calc on the side to jump another two levels to get into Calc I this past January. </p>

<p>Let me tell you, I struggled with Calc 1 because of the strong foundation in Algebra and Trig that was needed. Barely passed the class but made it through. Took Calc 2 over the summer and aced the final. My main problem was I hadn’t looked at a trig problem in 17 years and had to relearn the entire subject as I was learning Calc…not an easy task.</p>

<p>So it can be done, but it’s tough work. I’ve spent many extra hours rebuilding my math skills. Khanacademy.org is a great site with math tutoring videos. </p>

<p>If I were you I would at least audit Calc 1 again, to give you a refresher course for later. Before you jump back into any upper level college math class make sure your algebra skills are up to par, and your trig skills are strong too.</p>

<p>I made the mistake of talking to my brother (a business major who took business based Calc) who said trig wasn’t really needed in Calculus. I then realized that there are two types of Calc classes, Calc with Analytical Geometry (aka the hard calc for math/science majors with lots of trig) and the other Calc…Calc for business majors (aka easy Calc with no trig).</p>