<p>I would love to learn more about the math department at Princeton from the inside.
My primary question is how much interdisciplinary research by undergraduates is supported? Does the math department support majors with a focus on applied math?
If you are a math major do you have time to take courses outside the department appart from the general requirements?
What kind of internships do undergraduates undertake in summer?
Thanks!</p>
<p>[Mathematics</a> Department - Princeton University](<a href=“http://www.math.princeton.edu/]Mathematics”>http://www.math.princeton.edu/)
[The</a> Program in Applied and Computational Mathematics](<a href=“http://www.pacm.princeton.edu/index.shtml]The”>http://www.pacm.princeton.edu/index.shtml)</p>
<p>While you are waiting for insiders to show up, why don’t you take a look at some of the easily-available public information, which addresses each and every one of your questions.</p>
<p>There are a lot of math majors with a focus on applied math and who combine math with other things (like cos, econ, bio, physics, etc). You will definitely have time to take non-math classes outside of the requirements. People on the pure side of math tend to do research over the summer (at princeton or an REU) or work at a math camp, while more applied people might do an internship in finance or a company like google, or do research (princeton funds a lot of people to stay over the summer to do research with professors). I don’t know much about applied math here as I do pure math, but I think that the department is really flexible about allowing people to do more applied stuff (like using a cos course to count for a math departmental). You should look at the applications of computing and applied and computational mathematics certificates. If you do one of these, then your senior thesis will pretty much have to be interdisciplinary!</p>
<p>Cool, thanks! I have another question, is there something very special to you about princeton math apart from Conway and Wiles? :)</p>
<p>Hey confused314. I’m a math major with an applied focus. I’m only a freshman, so I don’t know all the ins and outs of the department just yet, but I’ve had a great experience with math at Princeton thus far. I’m looking at certificates in applied and computational math, applications of computing, and engineering and management systems, and I’ve found that I can fit in all three of these certificates on top of a math major and can still squeeze in room for classes in music, philosophy, linguistics, comparative literature, and psychology without going very far over the 31 course minimum. Given that I’m probably not using cognate classes to their fullest extent, I could fit in a few more electives if I chose to.
Sure, we have our celebrities here at Princeton. I’ve seen Prof. Conway a few times on the third floor, and we had a nice discussion of Latin literature once. I remember one episode during frosh week when, on the elevator ride up to the professors’ lounge, John Nash stepped on at the third floor and got off on the ninth, leaving the few freshman math enthusiasts on the elevator totally giddy for the ride up the next four floors. But what I’ve found really special about math here is the community we have. The lounge on the third floor of Fine Hall houses a few giant blackboards, the best coffee on campus, and a great liveliness for discussion of math and other things. On weekdays, we have afternoon tea, a time when professors, grad students, and undergrads congregate and basically just hang out in a very casual environment. The math club has game nights every week (I think that’s right; I haven’t been in a few months) and an excellent pi day celebration, and there are so many ways to connect to others in the department from advising to just chilling that it’s hard not to have a great time if you want to.</p>
<p>That sounds pretty cool! The certificate courses sound really nice. I am looking them up right now. Thanks!</p>
<p>FightTheTide, thanks for the great comments. A while back, the Fine Hall library was the only library on campus that would open 24 hours per day for the students that wanted to pull an all nighter or two in a completely quiet environment. Is this still the case?</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure the residential college libraries are open 24 hours. I don’t know for a fact if Fine library is always open, but I have worked in there until 3 am once (I haven’t been there since the Fine basement flooded), so it wouldn’t surprise me if it stayed open 24 hours. No other library I know of stays open past 2 am.</p>
<p>Going back to mathematics. I have another question. How big are the classes at princeton? :)</p>
<p>I was a prospective math major at Princeton in the 80’s (ended up switching to chemistry). At that time, my freshman math classes (217 and 218) were small enough for me to know that every single person in the room was smarter than I was! ;-)</p>
<p>Seriously, my roommate (who was also in those classes) ended up majoring in math, and is now wonderfully successful in academia as an applied mathematician. I think you really can’t go wrong with a place like Princeton for math.</p>
<p>My section of 215 had about 50. This was an odd year in that 215 wasn’t split into two sections; there are normally two sections of about 25 each fall and a section of maybhttp://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/1122556-mathematics-princeton.htmle 15 in the spring. My 217 section has 9 (there’s another section with 23), and 218 has 16 students this spring. You can get more numbers here: [Course</a> Offerings « Office of the Registrar](<a href=“http://registrar.princeton.edu/course-offerings/]Course”>Course Offerings | Office of the Registrar). Just click the MAT button and search; it will tell you the enrollment in each class. You can change the semester as well to look at things over the past four or five semesters.</p>
<p>And jasapo, that isn’t a list of top-five finishes; it’s a list of winning schools. Princeton has 13 top-5 finishes since 1990, third behind Harvard (19) and MIT (14). Also, someone edited Princeton out of the table of Putnam-winning universities on Wikipedia. We won Putnam in 2006.</p>
<p>Hey look, jasapo! (Or should I say germancar?) I can play your ■■■■■ games too!</p>
<p>Teams with Putnam Top-three finishes since 2002:</p>
<p>8 Harvard
7 MIT
6 Princeton
4 Duke
2 Caltech</p>
<p>Doesn’t look so bad now, does it? And I’m sure the 2000’s are much more relevant than when WUSTL won back in the 1940’s.</p>
<p>The National Research Council has just released its long overdue rankings of graduate programs at major U.S. universities. The last report was fifteen years ago. At that time, Princeton’s programs ranked extremely well nationally and they rank even higher in this new study.</p>
<p>The NRC rankings have been considered the “gold standard” of academic department rankings and scholars had been anxiously awaiting this new report. Another report will not be done for another ten years or so.</p>
<p>In both applied and pure mathematics, the National Research Council found Princeton’s programs to be near the top in the nation. Averaging their ‘S’ and ‘R’ scores, the national rankings look like this:</p>
<p>PURE MATHEMATICS</p>
<p>1—Princeton
2—Harvard
3—NYU
4—Berkeley
5—Stanford
6—MIT
7—Yale
8—Penn State
9—U. of Michigan
10–U. of Wisconsin</p>
<p>APPLIED MATHEMATICS</p>
<p>1—Princeton
2—Brown
3—UCLA
4—U. of Washington
5—Cornell
6—MIT
7—Northwestern
8—NYU
9—U. of Arizona
10–UC Davis</p>
<p>For more details regarding the survey and the above ranking, see:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/1006939-princeton-2010-national-research-council-nrc-rankings-news-item.html?highlight=national+research+council[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/1006939-princeton-2010-national-research-council-nrc-rankings-news-item.html?highlight=national+research+council</a></p>
<p>Great! Now, if there is someone who has experienced both princeton and mit, I would appreciate any comments! :)</p>
<p>I attended Princeton undergrad and MIT as a grad student. I was not a math major. Both universities are top ranked for mathematics. Do not make a decision on Princeton or MIT based on opinions on the respective math departments. Consider the total undergraduate experience at both universities. </p>
<p>MIT is serious science. Everyone wants to be a scientist or an engineer. MIT offers an outstanding education in math, science and engineering; the best in many fields. MIT is great if you want to concentrate on math and science. Princeton is better for students whose interests go beyond those fields. MIT does not make as much effort to graduate students who are well rounded academically. MIT enables students to pursue their specialized interests. MIT is very good for students that are committed to their major. Princeton encourages students to switch majors. Princeton wants students to take courses out of their comfort zone.</p>
<p>Princeton offers an outstanding education in math, science and engineering, AND the liberal arts, AND the fine arts. If you want to major in math and to take economics, attend campus plays, go to a football games, study a foreign language, become a creative writer, study literature or philosophy then Princeton is the choice. Your roommates at Princeton will be foreign language majors, future attorneys, science majors, economic majors, future politicians, future college professors in the liberal arts, etc. </p>
<p>MIT is big city. Princeton is located in a small town. MIT’s buildings look like office buildings or an industrial park. Princeton looks like Medieval castles. </p>
<p>Princeton has 5,113 undergraduates and 2,479 grad students. MIT has 4,232 undergraduates and 6,152 grad students. Princeton is more focused on undergraduate education. MIT is 55% male, 45% female. Princeton is 51% male, 49% female. </p>
<p>The mathematics education available at both universities is outstanding. However, the student life at the two universities is very different. Consider the educational environment that you want for the next four years. What activities do you like to relax, want do you want to do to have fun? I suspect that if you spend one day at each university you will know which environment that you prefer.</p>
<p>^^^truly excellent post. Years ago, one of the brightest kids in my class at Princeton was a Math major and ended up double majoring in English…</p>
<p>go figure</p>
<p>this guy was way out there in terms of sheer brilliance</p>
<p>he is now a college Math Professor</p>
<p>Nice post! thanks!
The problem is that I do not have a chance to spend a day at Princeton, so I cannot know if it’s better for me. I know however, that I want the opportunity to have a wider education.
Based on that, and also on the fact that graduate schools demand specialization, which school would prepare better students for grad school?
Thanks!</p>
<p>Dear Confused,</p>
<p>You are still confused.</p>
<p>At both Princeton and MIT you will have the opportunity to take a sufficient wide range of courses in math to prepare you for grad school. I think that you will do best in math where you ENJOY going to school. If math becomes a grind you will not do your best work. </p>
<p>In my humble opinion universities such as Cambridge, Princeton, MIT, and Harvard have such good math programs that if you do well as an undergraduate you will be able to get into a very good grad program in math. At Cambridge and MIT students are perhaps more dedicated to their math majors. At Princeton and Harvard there are so many other outstanding courses that math majors find interests in new subjects. </p>
<p>For example, Eric Lander '78 in high school he won the Westinghouse Prize (now the Intel Talent Science Search for his mathematics paper on quasiperfect numbers and was second in the country on a mathematics test. He graduated valedictorian at Princeton and received his doctorate in mathematics at Oxford on a Rhodes Scholarship. In 1987 he received a McArthur fellowship to to support his innovative application of statistics to the study of genetics. In 2001 his team at WICGR published a public draft of the human genome in the journal Nature. Lander is now one of the world leaders in bioinformatics and is currently the director of Center for Genome Research at MIT and Harvard. Mr. Lander has transitioned from pure math, then statistics,and now biology. Might you find new interests beyond pure math?</p>
<p>Princeton math majors are required to conduct independent research and write a thesis. Because you develop a close working relationship with your independent research advisors they are able to write personal and detailed letters of recommendation to math grad school committees. You will be able to take a sufficient number of math courses at both universities to demonstrate to grad schools your proficiency to do mathematics at the grad school level.</p>
<p>I do not agree that grad schools in the U.S. require specialization. For example, you can major in any subject at Princeton and be admitted to medical school. Christopher L. Eisgruber, the university provost majored in physics at Princeton, received a Rhodes Scholarship to study at Oxford University, where he obtained an M. Litt. in Politics and received a J.D. from the University of Chicago Law School. He did not specialized in law or politics. </p>
<p>There are more math majors at MIT than Princeton. Is that good or bad. Probably neither.</p>
<p>I encourage you to tell us what you enjoy doing outside of math so that we could tell you more about those interests at MIT and Princeton.</p>
<p>PtonAlumnus, first, thank you for post! Second, you are right, I really remain confused. I guess, if I tell you what I enjoy doing outside math, you might be able to help me more!
Here is a bit of information about me.</p>
<p>So, I really love number theory! (But, I feel like it would be more satisfying for me, if I could engage into something more applicable but rigorous at the same time). Also, I consider being exposed to good teaching and tutoring as very important (which is why I am strongly considering Princeton). Research is high in my list too. I have done some research in mathematics and I have enjoyed it very very much!</p>
<p>Outside mathematics, I am really into helping people, by tutoring in math or volunteering. I do enjoy it a lot and it makes me happy. I love physics and theatre (I am a horrible actor, but I really enjoy reading and watching plays). I have never studied computer science, but I really want to learn how to program in university. I prefer having a small group of friends, rather than being a member of larger companies, but I would argue that I am rather sociable. I enjoy playing ping pong if that matters at all and I would love to be able to spend some time alone during the day.</p>
<p>OK Confused, now we can make more meaningful comments.</p>
<p>In Number Theory Princeton is ranked number two and MIT is ranked number five. Probably not a meaningful difference. See: [Best</a> Algebra, Number Theory, and Algebraic Geometry Programs | Top Math Programs | US News Best Graduate Schools](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/number-theory-rankings]Best”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/number-theory-rankings).</p>
<p>If you enjoy research you will really like Princeton. In order to graduate you are required to conduct research both your junior year and your senior year. During your junior year you will write a JP (junior paper) and during your senior year you will write a thesis. The requirements for independent work are found here on page three: <a href=“http://www.math.princeton.edu/undergraduate/MathMajorsInfo2010-2011.pdf[/url]”>http://www.math.princeton.edu/undergraduate/MathMajorsInfo2010-2011.pdf</a> </p>
<p>At the end of the above paper a quiet mention is made of afternoon tea. Every afternoon tea is served in its large and luxurious common room of Fine Hall, which fills up with mathematicians, mathematical physicists, engineers, visitors from Forrestal and the Institute for Advanced Study, research scientists from industrial laboratories, and others mathematically inclined. Students and teachers alike relax with cup and saucer. Professor emeritus Harold Kuhn *50 said, If you sat long enough in the Fine Hall (the math building) common room you eventually would have tea with 98 percent of the world’s great mathematicians.</p>
<p>Elon Lindenstrauss, winner of the 2010 Field Prize said, I have spent many years in Princeton at various stages of my career, and think that the combination of the Department of Mathematics at Princeton University and the School of Mathematics at the IAS (Institute for Advanced Study) in close proximity makes it a wonderful place to do mathematics – possibly the best place there is." </p>
<p>One method to expand your math interests into related areas is through certificate programs. Certificate programs are somewhat similar to minor at other universities. However, all certificate program are interdepartmental studies. Some popular certificate programs for math majors include Applied and Computational Math, See: [The</a> Program in Applied and Computational Mathematics](<a href=“http://www.pacm.princeton.edu/index.shtml]The”>http://www.pacm.princeton.edu/index.shtml) and Applications of Computing. See: [Undergraduate</a> Certificate :: Princeton Computer Science](<a href=“http://www.cs.princeton.edu/academics/ugradpgm/pac.php]Undergraduate”>Welcome and Overview | Computer Science Department at Princeton University) . A full list of certificate programs is found here: [Princeton</a> University - Certificate Programs](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/main/academics/departments/certificate/]Princeton”>Areas of Study | Princeton University) .If you are interested in obtaining a job in mathematics after graduation the Operations Research & Financial Engineering Department is excellent in applied math. See: [Operations</a> Research and Financial Engineering | Engineering for Business, Commerce and Industry](<a href=“http://www.orfe.princeton.edu/]Operations”>http://www.orfe.princeton.edu/) The physics and astrophysics departments are excellent.</p>
<p>There are many opportunities to do volunteer work at Princeton. See: [Princeton</a> University | Student Volunteers Council | Welcome](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/svc/]Princeton”>http://www.princeton.edu/svc/) Prior to freshman week admitted students can work as a group on a community service project. The purpose is to enable freshman to meet other freshman, make friends before classes start, and to help the community. This would be an excellent way to meet other students that want to do volunteer work. See: [Princeton</a> University - Community Action expands to support arts, environment](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S22/05/62A58/]Princeton”>Community Action expands to support arts, environment)</p>