<p>All good points, zm.</p>
<p>Article in today’s NYT on the Cincinnati Model. </p>
<p><a href=“Mayoral Candidates See Cincinnati as a Model for New York Schools - The New York Times”>Mayoral Candidates See Cincinnati as a Model for New York Schools - The New York Times;
<p>I agree with everything you say in post #680, zoosermom. Multiple solutions are necessary for problems like these. Depending on a single model is disastrous.</p>
<p>Mathmom, our public school let my 7th grader go to 8th grade French–actually, they would have let him go to the HS, but we thought it best to wait a year–then in 8th grade he went to the HS for French 2. When he entered HS and wanted to start Spanish, they suggested he might want to skip Spanish 1 and set him up with a textbook, a curriculum, and a suggested student tutor to help him out so that he could learn enough over the summer to be placed in Spanish 2. When he was interested in doing AP French Lit, a 2-year course of study which they normally do not offer, the GT coordinator and AP French teacher set it up so that one read the books in English and discussed them with him, and the other reviewed his essays in French. She altered her AP French curriculum his junior year to include the poetry on the Lit curriculum for his benefit. </p>
<p>I know they have made accommodations like these for other kids as well.</p>
<p>In contrast, when a friend’s D wanted to go to Oxford and needed to take AP Calc, the private school teacher simply blew her off, and she was on her own.</p>
<p>More about Cincinnati- [Charter</a> Schools | Cincinnati Public Schools](<a href=“http://www.cps-k12.org/schools/charter]Charter”>http://www.cps-k12.org/schools/charter)</p>
<p>I am still not sure we can mix CC parent experiences or those of our friends, with the situation for kids who face different challenges and need a system of opportunities.</p>
<p>My experience with my own public school district was great in elementary school, but the middle school was awful for my child. It was a huge waste of three years, and she was bored to tears. The curriculum taught to the lowest common denominator, and I live in a very diverse community (socioeconomically). I put her in a wonderful private school for high school, and her brother went to the private school for middle school. S wanted to go to public school for high school, so I put him in a neighboring district (we have district of choice, as long as the district opens its doors to outside students). The neighboring district had an array of classes for students at all levels in each grade, something our home district does not have (and their AP courses are not as rigorous as those in the neighboring district). It was the best solution for us. </p>
<p>However, I continued to advocate for our district, because I believe that a strong public school system is important. I subbed in the district for a number of years, and I knew that the teachers tried hard … but we just have so many students who come from homes where education is not valued as highly as it is in our home or from homes that were difficult environments. I was amazed that kids could be so far behind in KINDERGARTEN … and I mean far, far behind. They were not ready for a classroom environment, and I cannot say why not … just that they were not. It was so very sad, and so very difficult for the teachers (and the kids who wanted to/could have learned more). </p>
<p>My friend is a teacher’s aid for autistic kids in our district. She says the AI kids are easier than the regular kids. Behavior issues are a huge problem. The elementary teachers are increasingly young, fresh-out-of-college kids who have no idea how to handle the behavior issues. My friend says some of them are scared of the students. It’s such a mess. Again, I don’t know the reasons, and I don’t know the answers.</p>
<p>But I continue to believe that we must provide an excellent public education for every child. Some will not be what others will be … not every child can learn everything, and certainly not at the same rate. We must find ways to address the multiple needs of children and meet EACH of them where they need to be met. Much easier said than done.</p>
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<p>My point in offering such experiences is that they directly counter the constant drumbeat that public schools are always inferior and private schools are always better. It simply isn’t true, and I get tired of hearing it.</p>
<p>kelsmom, it seems like it is a question of social capital, much of the time. Kids in a deprived environment can easily arrive in K way behind. It is very sad, indeed. So let’s keep cutting HeadStart funding…:(</p>
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<p>Could there be a small whiff of a strawman argument here? I know you’d like to elevate the type of criticism of the public education system that apparently is tiring with a blanket indictment of all public schools. There are, obviously, plenty of schools that work exactly as intended, and deliver the goods to the precise “customers” who were targeted. After all, how hard is to criticize the schools a la Highland Park in Dallas, or the monument to football in Allen ISD with it megamillion bus barn and football emporium! Those schools districts are performing, and in the case of HPISD very well as it is better than par to its superior average income and segregating haven from the Greater Dallas. And, if such schools are turning into experts in delivering the schools within a school to the IB/AP voracious crowd, that is even better! </p>
<p>All in all, only a fool would pretend that a rich public school or a recently built suburban one is irrevocably inferior to … any private school, including the quasi destitute religious schools that toil in the blighted urban desolated area in places such as Detroit. Do you really think the public school system works in Michigan? Does the dropout rate have to reach 80 percent for some to think the alarm bell might be hit? </p>
<p>Nope, there are public schools that work very well, but that does not mean the “system” of public education comes close to earn a passing mark. Despite its lofty goal to provide a free and equal education, it only delivers an unequal system with plenty of have-nots who are victimized by a lack of attention and blatantly unequal resources. It is also the same system that is marred by inefficiencies, fraud, cronyism, and suffers from the chocking stronghold of its unionized leadership. </p>
<p>If repeating the same indictment is tiring, you can blame sixty years of abdication of our school system to the service providers by corrupt politicians and the apathy of parents for the current situation.</p>
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<p>Not all private schools are good, just as not all public schools are good. I went to an excellent, no-name public school and would have gladly sent my own kids there if I lived in the eligible community. I would hazard to guess that most Americans regard their local public schools as acceptable. </p>
<p>But a big difference between bad private schools and bad public schools is that bad private schools eventually lose their customers and can go away.</p>
<p>Bad public schools OTOH, are like the zombie dead. They just suck tax revenue blood for perpetuity. They have a captive market of healthy kids and infect them w failure, generation after generation. How much money do abysmal D.C. public schools spend per student?</p>
<p>There are 11 or 12 school districts going into receivership by the state of California. Many more can’t pay their bills. Too many kids in classes, too little money to pay the bills. </p>
<p>There is an example of a school, Inglewood High School, that has faced declining enrollment in recent years. It is a school that gets 1 out of 10’s on the state Academic Performance Index. The kids that can leave, do. The ones left behind are not getting special consideration to take AP classes or independent studies or whatever their gifted hearts desire. We are leaving this group by the side of the road. </p>
<p>And have, for a long time. It is a generational problem for some schools. </p>
<p>[Record</a> number of school districts in state face bankruptcy - latimes.com](<a href=“Archive blogs”>Archive blogs)</p>
<p>All told, a whole lot of kids in California are getting the shaft in public schools. We can be happy about our own kids being in school districts where they get perks or great teachers eho want them to succeed, but it is tough road ahead for many kids in failing schools. </p>
<p>Nobody ever said that all private schools are better than public ones on this thread. For some of these kiddoes, having the crack at a good quality private education or a permit into the nicer schools in the suburbs will make the difference between a future of college or prison. Period.</p>
<p>Xiggi, </p>
<p>Your mailbox is full!</p>
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<p>I support alternatives to government schools, but statements like the above ignore the differences in average IQ and self-control that students in different school districts have. There was a 2010 book on this theme, “Bad Students, Not Bad Schools” by Robert Weissberg.</p>
<p>[Education</a> Week: Anti-Poverty Program Found to Yield Few Academic Gains](<a href=“http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2013/01/16/17neighborhoods.h32.html]Education”>Anti-Poverty Program Found to Yield Few Academic Gains)</p>
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<p>Possibly not all, but surely some of us have worked in environments that qualify as “institutional failures”. Not the best boss, not the best management period, and more than one or two co-workers with a crappy work ethic they blame on the poor management. Not much hope of it getting better, until a new sheriff moves in, it’s all upended and, the bitter one’s are cut loose to sink to whatever level they’ll float at. And, that’s private enterprise - sans unions and politicians.</p>
<p>I stumbled across this today, thought it was interesting: </p>
<p>[A</a> Philadelphia School’s Big Bet on Nonviolence - Jeff Deeney - The Atlantic](<a href=“A Philadelphia School's Big Bet on Nonviolence - The Atlantic”>A Philadelphia School's Big Bet on Nonviolence - The Atlantic)</p>
<p>I know <em>nothing</em> about this case other than what’s described in the article.</p>
<p>Wow. I support public schools. I have voted every time in the past 20 years for any override the local dept requested. I have had parents of public school student ask me to remind them to vote. Really??? This didn’t happen once or twice but many times. My kids have gone to private. We found a private preschool we liked and ended up continuing on through. Oldest graduated from a Jesuit HS and youngest is in a all girl private day school. Both kids have had incredible educations. If I, or anyone else chooses to spend my money on private schools, why do others care??? I am so sick of this debate that I have told my husband I will no longer support any tax override for the schools. Heck parents of school age kids can’t get off their butts to vote, why should I? And to be honest, my kids have been exposed to an incredibly diverse group of kids. Much more than either would have seen if they had gone to the local public.</p>
<p>My husband and I sacrifice a lot to send our kids to private, no one has any right to look down their nose at us or our kids.</p>
<p>^And people who keep their kids in public schools sacrifice a lot too sometimes. </p>
<p>I am glad you have supported your community schools, and sorry people who live there are too lazy to exercise their right to vote. They sound stupid. But I don’t think the generalizations help on either side. We should all support good schools, period.</p>
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<p>agree. There are pros and cons on boths sides.</p>
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<p>[Why</a> Private Schools Are Dying Out : Education Next](<a href=“http://educationnext.org/why-private-schools-are-dying-out/]Why”>http://educationnext.org/why-private-schools-are-dying-out/)</p>
<p>On the funding issue, my state ranks 34th in per capita income. The district has two towns, one of which is in the top 10 in the state in per capita income. But that does not translate into higher spending: our district ranks right in the middle of state districts in per student spending. (And that budget is under constant attack from some quarters.) Nevertheless, it is one of the highest performers academically. </p>
<p>I would suggest that this is because of social capital, as well as a competent and generally responsive school system. More college-educated parents who value education. Comparatively few kids in actual poverty. Very little crime. Decent nutrition. A safe environment.</p>
<p>I think that most schools are a reflection of the society around them. Xiggi asked if I though “the school system in Michigan” was doing a good job. The is no single school system in Michigan. In Birmingham and Grosse Point, I have no doubt the public schools are good. In Detroit, not so much.</p>
<p>I see a lot of people on this thread blaming the schools for the plight of the kids. What I think is going on in most cases is that the schools are unable to overcome the lack of social capital and the problems of the communities from which they draw students. I certainly don’t blame anyone who would want to get their kid out of that environment. But I think that these are not problems that are caused by teacher’s unions or by insufficient high-stakes testing, and to blame one and force more of the other is a huge mistake. </p>
<p>If the neighborhood is safe, the school will be safe. If the families read, the children will read. If the families believe in education, the children will too. If the kids are well cared for, they will arrive in school ready to learn. And so on. Attempts to solve all of these problems through the schools leave the schools with less time and money to devote to actual learning. Whose fault is that? Not the teacher’s union. Not the educator’s.</p>
<p>As to private schools schools “dying out”:</p>
<p>^^^^Maybe, but my daughters’ private school recently received a $20 million donation from an alum, and they are doing lots of building from the looks of things over there (we are no longer involved day to day since DDs have both graduated). I think that school is thriving just fine.</p>