<p>It is a crutch for high paid administrators to hide behind when they do not do their job.</p>
<p>Interesting how the pro-union types will fight tooth and nail for incompetents.</p>
<p>I am not pro-union. I manage over 200 government workers protected by a union contract and civil service laws. If they do not perform I can fire them but I appreciate that you let me blame someone else when I do not do my job.</p>
<p>mammal, it may be hard for you to understand but most people enter the teaching profession BECAUSE THEY WANT TO SEE KIDS SUCCEED. You can believe the talking point of the teacher as “lazy public employee who just wants the summer off” but that is all it is–a talking point designed for to arouse resentment and faux outrage.</p>
<p>riprorin, speaking of talking points…most of us who have our kids in public schools are not union employees ourselves. We ALL want the best for our kids. No one “fights tooth and nail for incompetents.” Seriously.</p>
<p>Tom, I wouldn’t want your job.</p>
<p>I have a great job.</p>
<p>Managing 200 unionized bureaucrats? That wouldn’t be for me.</p>
<p>Why- the vast majority of my staff works hard. They provide needed service to the public and they appreciate their jobs. The employees that do not keep their end of the bargain are counseled and given a plan to improve. We have clear objectives and procedures that are set and required to be followed. </p>
<p>The union president once told me “Tom it does the union no good if an employee is allowed not to work. We just want you to be sure to follow the terms of the contract” We were in total agreement. By the way the contract is by far a great management tool.
Tenure, civil service protection and union contracts do not have any clause that make it okay for an employee to not do their job or to continually perform in a unsatisfactory manner. They all lay out rules and the rules work in the managers favor if he is willing to follow them.</p>
<p>Unions never fight for members who deserve to be fired?</p>
<p>Of course they do but so what. That is their job to make sure their member gets an adequate defense. If I do my job and document what I did and why I did it they do not win. They usually drop the case when they know you have done your job as a manager.
It is quite common for an employee to file a grievance and the union to tell them to drop it because they are wrong.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t want to spend my days fighting a union which is hell bent on defending members who obviously deserve to be fired. But maybe you wouldn’t enjoy my job either.</p>
<p>I do not spend the majority of my time doing that. Most people do what is expected of them and those that do not either improve quickly or leave voluntarily when they come to understand that you will do your job and document their poor performance and hold them accountable.
It really is not difficult.</p>
<p>What value do unions have any way? I’ve never been a member of a union and I’ve managed to survive in life.</p>
<p>Getting back to education, how do teachers’ unions benefit students? They appear to be purely self-serving to me.</p>
<p>Teachers unions benefit their members. That is what they were set up to do. The only benefit they have for the kids is that they improve the working conditions of their members so hopefully they make the job more desirable for a better level of candidate.</p>
<p>Unions in the public sector clearly have a positive impact on wage increases. The only better way for wage increases in the public sector is to be of the correct political party. So if you are not political or gain wage increase through the union you will be behind. Merit is nothing but lip service. It is politics or union increases.</p>
<p>So are you suggesting that teachers’ unions improve tbe quality of education?</p>
<p>I do not think they improve it or make it worse. I think the administrative leadership in the schools have the greatest impact on the quality of education.</p>
<p>So if unions aren’t improving education (and I seriously doubt they are neutral as you suggest), why should I support them, especially since they increase cost?</p>
<p>Who said you should.
Non-union members get tenure protection.</p>
<p>Do you have any experience managing people? Any experience managing people in a union?</p>
<p>I’ve managed up to 3 non-union people.</p>
<p>Why should anyone, except teachers, be for teachers’ unions?</p>
<p>Who said they should? I happen to want teachers paid a middle class wage. In NJ the average teacher makes $62,000 which I have no problem with. If the union made that possible I am fine with that.</p>
<p>I also understand people being upset when they hear an anecdotal story of the kindergarten teacher making $120k. I do not blame that on the union. The other side should have negotiated differently.</p>