McGill vs University of Toronto / Rotman vs Desautels

College Search & Lists
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A related thread was closed due to inactivity. Admins wouldn’t let me reopen since I wasn’t the OP. So I’m starting a new thread and copying the people that previously commented.

@Anne86 @DadOfJerseyGirl @DadTwoGirls @gwnorth @MYOS1634 @bouders @ProfandParent @TomSrOfBoston @simon3

My US born and raised son is deciding between University of Toronto (Rotman Commerce) and McGill (Desautels Faculty of Commerce). Here are my current thoughts based on rankings, reviews, online posts, and talking to my professional peer group:

  1. UofT has been consistently ranked as the best university in Canada. Rotman has consistently been ranked as the best undergrad business (commerce) program in Canada.
  2. Many people in the US have heard of McGill and it’s nickname as the “Harvard of Canada”. Very few have heard of University of Toronto or recognize its high ranking amongst Canadian universities. Before we started researching schools in Canada, I also would have guessed that McGill was the best school in Canada.
  3. UofT, McGill, and UBC are widely considered the top schools in Canada so it probably doesn’t make a big difference whether one is ranked 1, 2, or 5. I believe the top tier consulting firms and investment banks recruit from all 3.
  4. Both UofT and McGill are located within large cities but McGill seems to have more of a “campus” feel.
  5. Although UofT is more diverse (students from many ethnic backgrounds but attended high school in Canada), McGill has a larger international student population (students that went to high school in other countries). This might also explain why McGill is better known in the US and internationally.
  6. UofT has a nickname of “University of Tears” because it is supposed to be very academically challenging. I believe this is more of a readjustment for top performing high school students to realize that a grade of 75 is actually good, and that they are only average amongst their student peers. From what I can tell, McGill has a similar grading policy.

Are my thoughts correct? Anything more to add? Any other considerations I am missing? Thanks.

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I wouldn’t say that. Both schools are very diverse, both domestically and internationally. About 20% of McGill students are francophone, which you will not find at UToronto.

While McGill is large (just under 40,000 students), the University of Toronto is enormous (just under 100,000 students). There are about 67,000 on the St. George campus alone.

Montreal offers an environment unique in North America. It is a bilingual city (despite what the Quebec government says). Also, the cost of living in Montreal is lower than in Toronto, especially when it comes to housing costs.

The education at both school is demanding, there is certainly no grade inflation. McGill uses A, B, C, D, F grades and not percentages. They also compute a US style GPA. Not sure how UToronto does that.

“Many people in the US have heard of McGill and it’s nickname as the “Harvard of Canada”. Very few have heard of University of Toronto or recognize its high ranking amongst Canadian universities.”

Toronto ranks first in Canada due mainly to research. That would be of importance to graduate students, not so much to undergrads. In the Maclean’s rankings, which is similar to our USNews rankings, McGill is number 1.

Until about 1965 McGill was a private university. It was free to recruit international students without limit. Even after it became public that continued. UToronto has always been public and only recruited in the US in the past decade or so. Also, Montreal is a common vacation destination for Americans in the Northeast, Toronto, not so much so. If you are vacationing in Montreal, it is hard to miss seeing McGill.

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I think that both Toronto and McGill are very well known and respected in the US. I would not be concerned at all about both universities being well known pretty much worldwide.

“Diverse” might mean something different in Montreal compared to the US. There are differences between the French Canadian versus English Canadian cultures, and you will meet both in Montreal. There are also many, many people who have roots in both cultures. I have known a few people who were fully bilingual essentially from birth (or at least as soon as they started to speak). I remember one friend telling me that his earliest memory was realizing that there were two words for everything. His second earliest memory was discovering that the words came in groupings, and some people only knew the words from one of the two groupings.

I think that there is plenty of diversity at both schools.

Grade deflation is definitely an issue at both schools. I have heard some students who had done very well in high school complaining about the grading at both of these schools.

I personally like Montreal as a place to visit, and it was a good place to live until I needed a job and didn’t speak French well enough.

You should be aware of the current controversy regarding tuition for out of province students at McGill and the other English language universities in Quebec.

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Thanks for mentioning. I am aware of the controversy and do wonder how these policies (esp the language requirement) might affect the academic quality and reputation. I’ve spoken with 2 people that live in Montreal and both believe the current governing party will not get re-elected and that these policies will be reversed. It is certainly a consideration.

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I think it is a good thing for McGill to require undergrads to take a few French language courses. However to expect 80% of out of province students to show an intermediate level of knowledge is unrealistic.

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I disagree. Students in other provinces have to take several years of French in elementary, middle and high school. Many take French immersion. It’s not hard to attain an intermediate level of knowledge in French and it’s very useful for a career in all of Canada, not just Quebec.

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I don’t know whether requiring French is good or bad as I’ve never been a school administrator trying to balance the school’s mission, funding and politics. However, I believe such a requirement will limit the number of people applying which may impact the competitiveness of its students.

We’re still having a hard time deciding which option is better. I know several people (both academically and professionally) who know people that went to McGill and loved it. But I don’t know anyone that went to UofT.

I booked a flight to visit McGill and UofT again next week not realizing the schools are closed on Friday for Easter. And the weather is going to be cold and rainy again. Not a great selling point for either school.

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It’s important to understand Quebec is a French speaking province, even if it’s bilingual (especially Montreal) rather than monolingual. Taking French classes is required if you study in France and it’s not diminished their ability to attract students.
The requirement is equivalent to 2 semesters, Elementary French 1&2, plus conversation classes if you’ve never taken French in HS or conversational French only if you have, which imho is very reasonable and actually useful since it allows you to travel, understand the country/province where you live, its people, etc. (The earlier requirement was MUCH more onerous - in fact, unreasonable- and the government wasn’t so insane they insisted on it despite all evidence, like France’s govt has been fond of doing.)

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@Catcherinthetoast Are you familiar with IB recruiting from these Canadian schools?

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I have worked at several bulge bracket US firms and Global Banks and am not aware of them recruiting actively at any Canadien schools. Not saying it doesn’t happen just not my experience.

I have however encountered numerous very successful bankers from all three schools mentioned. I am not sure how they found their way to their roles.

Some of the Canadien banks TD, Scotia, RBC have great franchises that compete very successfully. I would imagine this is another way for graduates of Canadien schools to enter the IB world.

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I need to dig into this a big more. Rotman claims that Barclays, Credit Suisse, JP Morgan and others recruit directly from their school (and Bain, BCG, McKinsey etc from the consulting side). I wonder if the Canadian offices of those firms handle recruiting separate from US operations. That would make sense rather than the IBs hiring only in the US and relocating only US citizens to Canada.

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You happened to mention firms I know well. I was a managing director at 2 of those 3 but could be wrong given the time that has passed😀

I honestly don’t know how local Canadien recruiting was conducted but never recall US based trips across the border taking place. Certainly however those colleges alumni are represented at these firms.

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When my son was at Desautels, American students would have their initial interview on campus with the Canadian division of US companies. If that goes well, they would be offered second interviews in the US.

He wasn’t a finance major but ended up being hired by a (European) French bank for a position in NYC.

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