Mean Band Director

thumper1 · February 7, 2009, 12:08pm

Band is both a curricular AND extra curricular activity. Kids who are involved in the band have class obligations AND out of class ones (marching in parades perhaps, participation in evening concerts, etc). It goes with this particular class.

At our school, band is one of the best activities and students really want to be in the band…which is also a class for which they earn a grade AND credit.

I guess I agree with others…if the soccer coach asked students to be at school an hour before school for practice, my guess is the parents would get the kids there. Since band is considered both extra curricular and curricular…what is the difference?

And I still ASK…IF the first period class starts at 7:30…do the buses REALLY arrive at 7:29? I seriously doubt it.

P.S. Back in the day when the dinos roamed (that’s when I was in high school)…chorus members had to get to school 1 hour prior to the start of the day to rehearse. This was twice weekly ALL the time AND before concerts it was daily for weeks on end. And yes…we also had one period daily of chorus practice. Our director was top notch and our choir was as well. It would not have been without all the rehearsal time.

Peachy267 · February 7, 2009, 12:12pm

We have a similar problem at our HS with the Chorus director. He teaches all the chorus classes and directs several smaller groups, including one very selective group. The members of this group basically do whatever he tells them… how to wear their hair etc. Daughter’s friend was chastised for cutting her hair without his permission! This man verbally abuses the students on a regular basis… kids crying in chorus is not an unusual sight to see. As a result, many students, including my daughter, drop out of chorus after freshman year. Probably the most successful vocal student in the history of our school refused to join this “select” group because of these antics. And yet the school district, which is well aware of his tactics, continues to allow it. Temperamental is one thing, verbal abuse and ridicule are another. How many parents would sit back and allow the calculus teacher to get away with ridiculing their child in front of the class for a poor academic performance? Not many, I suspect. This should be no different.

My daughter always loved to sing, but after freshman year concentrated all her efforts on band. The band director, unlike the one at OP’s school, is well-liked by the students. He is encouraging, helpful and makes band fun for the kids. They’ve been to DisneyWorld to march/play in the parade on Main Street, enjoyed workshops with college band directors and compete every year in the NYSMMA festival, where they consistently receive the gold with distinction award. The kids work hard to please him because they want him to be proud of them, not because they are afraid of him. That’s the difference.

As for the “time” issuse, I agree with most of the posters here. If your child wants to be in the band and the time committment issue is clearly stated from the beginning, he/she needs to be on board with the committment or drop out. It’s not fair to the other kids who do get there on time. But no one should have to put up with abuse… it’s just not right.

3drummersathome · February 7, 2009, 7:49pm

We’ve had similar experiences to other posters. I would meet with the director about the language or abusive comments but music directors are intense, especially with their top groups. Our jazz programs are held 0 period in both middle and high school and, when we did have buses, jazz kids couldn’t go to school on the bus because they’d be late even though our buses arrive 30 minutes before 1st period starts. (But then again we’ve never had free bussing and the bus pass cost $320 a year for RT. Now we have no bussing at all.)
Both band directors (middle and high) are extremely well liked. Middle school director has outbursts expecially around festival time that make you think his hear will blow off. But he has an incredible relationship with the kids and they know he wants them to be the best. High school director also has very high expectations and rarely, if ever, yells. But as my son says, sometimes that’s worse. He gets very quiet and you know you’ve dissappointed him. After one particular rehearsal when I overheard him reviewing their performance with absolutely no positive comments, I mentioned to my son that I thought he was very harsh. He replied “Yeah, because we sucked.” He knew they could do better and any positive comment would be just blowing smoke.
I don’t condone abuse, and I don’t think my kids have had to experience it, but they have had intense feeback at times. They love music and one is now in college studying music.

walkinghome · February 7, 2009, 9:11pm

The problem was solved at our school by having all band students in the same homeroom and then having band as first period. During marching season they would have early band once or twice a week but each parent and child had to sign a contract saying they understood that’s how it was to be done. I think he let them miss one early morning band practice before it affected their grade.

Abusive teachers is a different kettle of fish. I would band with other parents and ask for a meeting with the teacher. Before that though, I would get involved with the parent booster group so you can get a clearer picture of who you are dealing with.

teriwtt · February 7, 2009, 9:35pm

I guess my question would be, is this teacher tenured? If not, chances are he probably is looking around and this will be a moot point in the future. If he is tenured, then you have to approach it from a different perspective.

But I do have to chime in with the others who say their kids’ music teachers say ‘on time is late’, that it’s pretty standard in our school, too. The plus side is, he never kept them later than the scheduled time (for non-school time scheduled rehearsals), and they always knew they were released when promised. And if he changed schedules after the beginning of the academic year, then he was much more lenient with ‘conflicts’. So his message was basically, these are the rules, if you want to participate, accept them; if not, then don’t participate. Then if rehearsal times changed, and you could not logistically meet the new demand, he was fairly understanding.

The APUSH teacher at our high school, however, was the one who would tell the kids not to complain to their parents about his ‘teaching’ (I use the term loosely). Even after kids were graduated, he would continue to tell stories of former students whose parents complained to the administration. That p*ssed me off more than anything any other teacher tried to pull. They begged me not to go to the administration, and I was stuck. If you’re so confident in your teaching abilities, then why are you so worried about parents going to administration in the first place?

lilmom · February 7, 2009, 11:38pm

Our S’s band director made the kids do push ups or run if they were late but he wasn’t verbally abusive. I always marvelled at how such a motley crew could come together and make such beautiful music. 
So, the kids need some discipline to perform in the band - its no excuse to be verbally abusive. I’ve called other teachers on the carpet for that before. One was even fired - I wasn’t the only one who complained. Sometimes, they also just need to be “reminded” how to behave. We have an active band booster organization that financially supports our band. But we also let him know what we disapprove of - and verbal abuse would definitely be on that list!!!

ellemenope · February 8, 2009, 2:08am

I think a lot of it has to do with experience and temperment. Our longtime band director retired recently and the new guy is YOUNG…late 20s, not married, no kids. He hasn’t had the experience in how to deal with kids and motivate them. He thinks that yelling at them is motivating them. HA!

He is better this year, after a very rocky first year where there were many complaints and lots of kids who did not return to the program.

But even the best and the most experienced can lose it.

"A jury awarded $25,000 yesterday to a Rancho Bernardo High
School baritone player who was throttled by the school’s
band director after the boy showed up wearing orange socks
for the 2001 Tournament of Roses Parade.

A lawyer for 16-year-old Travis LeBlanc, who quit the school’s
marching band after the incident, said the boy wore
orange socks that day because he lost his regulation white
ones. A lawyer for the school said the teen-ager was playing a
prank."

If I were on the jury, I would have given the kid $1.

tango14 · February 8, 2009, 10:11am

Isn’t that what band boosters are for? Our band booster moms always had a collection of socks (black, in our case), probably purchased at the thrift store, for the times when kids showed up with the wrong (or no) socks.

giddey_up · February 8, 2009, 11:20am

Regarding the bullying behavior - the mocking and humiliation of a child before his classmates - my advice to document the incidents in the greatest detail that you can and provide it to the guidance counselor or principal. I mean dates, quotes, the targeted child’s name, etc., even if it is just a nasty look or rolling of the eyes. This gives the administration the ammunition that they need to counsel with the teacher and take corrective action. Don’t try to intervene with the teacher yourself, let the administration do their job and hold them to it.

Some teachers / coaches get carried away with the power they have over our kids and need to be reigned in a bit. Some ape the practices of successful coaches who are motivating adults competing at the absolute highest levels of competition - and it is way out of line for 15 year olds.

sunnyflorida · February 8, 2009, 12:48pm

In the sock incident, there was witness testimony that the band director used physical force as well as expletives in dealing with the situation. Testimony was that the director put his hands on the boy and shook him, and pulled him from the line formation. The student testified the director also put his hands around his neck, but witness testimony did not confirm this. There is no excuse for a band director putting his hands on a student. It could have been settled by asking the student to leave the formation, informing him that he was no longer marching in the parade. Was this worth $25,000 --maybe not. But perhaps the jury was trying to send a message. And I’ll bet there was somebody in that courtroom, and maybe on that jury, that had personal experience with a band director like this.

ellemenope · February 8, 2009, 1:12pm

I agree that the band director was WAY out of line! And marching in the Rose Parade is a very, very stressful time, I’ve been told. He lost it, just plain lost it.

I haven’t heard any bad things about this band director otherwise and one of my Ds had him as a conductor in an honor band one year and found him delightful.

But as a band parent and with two kids in the band, I can tell you that the kid was pulling a prank. I left my socks at home so I had to wear these ORANGE ones? Please…

As I said, I would have found for the kid, but no way to the tune of $25K.

Our band booster chaperones used to have black socks for sale that the kids could purchase if they forgot their own socks. But they decided that this was not teaching the kids responsibility for their own kit, so they discontinued the practice. Kids rose to the challenge and have remembered socks ever since.

cutieflutie08 · February 8, 2009, 3:34pm

omg mr cole!!! haha
i cant believe he’s throttled a kid and mr. torns(mt. carmel high) hasn’t (at least to my knowledge).
yeah PUSD band directors seem to be like that though. tough but loveable. :)

thumper1 · February 8, 2009, 10:09pm

Our HS band has 100 or so kids in it. That would be one mighty BIG homeroom!!!

erhswimming · February 9, 2009, 1:35am

Another example of a tyrannical band director. Mine was the same way, insensitive to many members’ feelings. I also hated the cult-like atmosphere of the organization and the discouragement of participation in other extracurricular activities. Most of my positive experiences lied in the sports and other clubs I participated in. My sister has found the same director more enjoyable, although I still have to give her advice on how to ignore some of the stuff he says and what not to take seriously (i.e. the promotion of band and its members as superior to the other school organizations and general student body).

ellemenope · February 9, 2009, 3:04am

Mostly said to parents of prospective band kids to assuage their worries that being in band will take away too much time from studying. And at least at our high school, the vals and sals are often band kids.

Hunt · February 9, 2009, 10:17am

It seems to me that the requirement that students arrive early for band would have to be communicated BEFORE a student signed up for band. Where I live, a lot of students ride the bus to school, including high school, for financial reasons–they don’t have another ride. It would be unfair to penalize such students for being unable to arrive early. But I’ll bet the director doesn’t want to make it an explicit requirement in advance, because he doesn’t want his band to be depopulated.
We had experience with a band director who was problematic–my son endured it, and still plays, but it soured my daughter on band and she switched to chorus.

binx · February 9, 2009, 12:20pm

My experience with band directors is that they are often more bark than bite. I think this was a rule at our school, too, but buses arrived early. It was the students driving in at the last minute, jostling for parking, who were getting there late. But the teacher’s attendance never started on time anyway, despite all his threats.

With a big group of noisy kids, band directors get used to speaking loudly and issuing ultimatums. There just isn’t much opportunity to be soft and gentle. Most band directors I know are usually hoarse by the end of the day. I’ve cringed at some of the things I’ve heard said, but at our school, the kids seem willing to put up with it for the cachet the program brings. (I’ve never figured out why athletes put up with similar treatment. Music, I understand.)

I think there is a natural selection that occurs - when teachers are uniformly bad, kids quit. (That happened at the orchestra at our school. Took a few years for the admin to catch on.) But if the program is growing and doing well, chances are the band directors are doing some good things, too. Keep in mind that some students only tell their parents the bad parts.

I suspect that if a kid had a genuine problem with arriving early, and went to the teacher to discuss options, there would probably be some effort to fix the situation. Maybe the teacher knows of an earlier bus, or a student who would carpool.

The kid could offer to switch to a different band that met later in the day. Then the teacher could decide if that was a preferable option to having a late comer.

Or the kid could offer to warm up at home before coming to school, go to their locker AFTER class, and be seated and ready at the downbeat.

Or the kid could offer to quit band if it was going to bring down the group and his own grade. (You have to try not to say this sarcastically.) We did this once. Offered to pull kid out if our inablility to contribute financially at the level they wanted was going to be a problem. (We were out of money. We were spending far more than most students on music, and just had been bled dry. I think it was only $500 they wanted then; it’s over a thousand now. They want even more from those who march.) Fortunately, they decided that having my kid stay in band was desireable.

But I think the kid has to genuinely make an effort to comply, and the director has to see this. Even though band is offered as an elective, it isn’t a “right”. (My oldest was in drama - we had the transportation issue with him, too, because the “academic class” also required daily after-school time. It was part of the package.)

And kids who are generally well-behaved, talented, and put forth effort (e.g. practicing or taking lessons) are going to get a more favorable response than those who are a regular source of grief.

And, although I do think it is common (unfortunately) among band directors (just like someone mentioned about sports coaches), I do think there is a line that can be crossed. Parents do need to protect their kids, and if yours is especially vulnerable for one reason or another, don’t hesitate to pull him out. On the other hand, if the problem is widespread, and damaging, then, by all means, do what you must. Be careful about bringing down the whole program if the situation doesn’t warrant it, though.

erhswimming · February 9, 2009, 10:03pm

ellemope- No, my band director actively discouraged involvement elsewhere and told us all the time that we would get better scholarships/grades/etc. as a result of being in band. I don’t know anyone from our state-caliber band that has received more than $1,000 for music. I was the only student in most of my AP classes in band. I didn’t go on to play in band in college but rather swam, even though I garnered several band honors (all-county, solos, etc.) Notable mentions of me HAVING to miss something for band include: missing conferences for swimming, missing multiple meetings and events for my clubs, and having to stay for a banquet the night before a national geography competition when I should have been studying. I agree with binx that band directors can be more bark than bite, but I knew that it wasn’t the end tool to get me into school with money as most others in it unfortunately believed.

hops_scout · February 9, 2009, 10:22pm

All this talk of “an earlier bus” or “later bus” has me confused. Around here, the buses arrive 15-20 minutes before school starts and leaves 10-15 minutes after school ends. There’s no “early bus” or “late bus” except that some buses may arrive after another due to where it is coming from. For a specific location of the school district, there is one maybe two buses that go by there before and after school.

cutieflutie08 · February 9, 2009, 10:39pm

erhswimming, at my school it was mostly the bandos that took the AP classes. the water polo/swimming bandos are pretty crazy tho.

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