<p>Our band director puts in a lot of effort and a lot of time. But when the kids disappoint him or don’t meet his expectations he gets very nasty. He will belittle them, ridicule them in front of the rest of the group - then say things like “Don’t tell your mom & dad I yelled at you - because I didn’t raise my voice.” </p>
<p>The schedule changes - and we’re expected to re-arrange everything to accommodate the changes, no matter how last minute. His new thing is - the kids are supposed to get rides to school so they can get to school early (band is 1st period) – so they can be ready to play right at the bell. He doesn’t want them to take the bus. “If you’re on time - you’re late.” So if they take the bus to school, and get there on time - their grade is marked down for band. BTW, we pay over $ 10,000 per year in property taxes (that’s low for NJ) – so I really don’t feel like I should have to drive my kids to school every day.</p>
<p>My question is, after 4 yrs of this, and 3 more to go - how do I keep my mouth shut ? How grateful am I supposed to be for a teacher who is probably not compensated enough for all of the extra work, but is abusive, tyrannical, controlling and has anger management issues ? Apparently he is thinking of leaving the district b/c of all the parental “attacks.” But I’m tired of him attacking my kids - they can’t fight back. </p>
<p>Any advice from other parents with difficult coaches/conductors/teachers ??</p>
<p>Wow, this is terrible. Not so much about the scheduling issue (I’m biased as a parent who has to drive at 645am to orchestra practice numerous times a week), but the verbal abuse. And if it is as you describe, it IS abuse.and that is just absolutely not acceptable in my books. </p>
<p>If what you say is reality, how much you pay and teacher dedication doesn’t excuse this kind of behavior. Have you or others talked to the principal? If he’s on the verge of leaving due to ‘parental attacks’, seems you are not alone, and you might aid the situation by adding another straw to the camel’s back so to speak. </p>
<p>At a minimum, I’d encouraging you to talk to the principal. And I am the kind of person who would push beyond that if I didn’t get a decent answer to the problem (e.g .I’d get other parents together in a coalition, collect a detailed record, and take it back to the principal and go over the principals head if necessary). And if all else fails, I’d take my kid out. But I’m not you and I don’t know other important factors such as how important is band to your child (and to you to have your child in band); how much is your child impacted by his behavior; how rare is it to get a teacher to offer band in your district; and what other music opportunities are available to your kids besides this.</p>
<p>Standard for band directors although my daughter’s band teacher had a way of making fun of himself so the kids loved them even though her was tough. The problem with band is that everyone has to be there and performing at once unlike the other subjects where one student’s lack of performance only makes the others look good or sports where half the team is sitting on the bench.</p>
<p>There was a special on PBS about a famous college band director - I believe he was at Grambling - who would say all of the time “If you’re on time, you’re late.” It seems to be pretty common for them.</p>
<p>Two things, one as wife of a director of a collegiate brass ensemble, and the other as a former drum major of my college band.</p>
<p>First, you’re expected to be warmed up and ready to play when rehearsal time starts. That’s just how musical ensembles are, particularly ensembles that are working towards being competitive. There’s so little rehearsal time, and the director doesn’t want to waste half of it while everyone warms up and figures out how to play in tune again.</p>
<p>Secondly, and most importantly, band can be fun. It can be strict but fun. There’s no need for abuse or tyranny. If the director’s complaining about parental attacks, I doubt one more trip to the principal’s office is going to do much (then again, it may be the straw that breaks the camel’s back, and it could remove the problem gentleman from the situation entirely).</p>
<p>Are your kids learning? Is it contributing towards making them the people they’ll want to be later on? Or are they getting nothing out of it? Some of my most obnoxious teachers that I complained relentlessly about taught me the most.</p>
<p>Standard band practice, no matter where you go. Expectation in high school band is that you are in your seat and ready to start practice when rehearsal time arrives. So you need to get there 15 minutes early to be on time.</p>
<p>Wow–you still have busing?? </p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Sounds like our band director also! Do they take a class in college entitled “Abusive, controlling and tyrannical 101”?</p>
<p>“Sounds like our band director also! Do they take a class in college entitled “Abusive, controlling and tyrannical 101”?”</p>
<p>…Nah…more like we experience it for 4 years and then go on to expect the same of our students! I’m no band director (I was a voice and psych major) but the expectations as a vocalist were the same – if you’re not warmed up, ready (musically, emotionally, well-practiced, etc.), and in your seat (silently) when rehearsal is to begin, you’re late.
Personally, I think your director is overdoing it a bit, but at the same time, it doesn’t sound THAT far beyond what is typical of band directors</p>
<p>Have you watched a football practice and a band practice? The coach and director behave in a very similar ways in terms of trying to bring a group into a cohesive unit. They single out the one not in conformance and the point is to try to also use their desire to be part of the group to make them do what they are supposed to do. Like come prepared. Yet there are far fewer complaints about the football coach yelling at kids. Just wondering …</p>
<p>Go with how your kids feel. The line between strong directing and abusive can be elusive. If there are a number of parents, preferably the active and experienced ones with the boosters, that feel the same way, going as a group can be more effective. </p>
<p>And yes - on time is late is universal. I actually used it on my kids all the time. The whole sentence was “Early is on time and on time is late”. It works great when we are out and have to meet somewhere.</p>
<p>It doesn’t have to be that way. Our New Jersey band director runs a fine program and is, quite possibly, the most beloved teacher in the school. Kids hang out in the band room, get personal advice, etc.</p>
<p>Do you have an organization of music parents?</p>
<p>This is not a fair expectation for a high school class. Some kids cannot get a different ride, and they must not be penalized. This is what drives students out activities and academic effort. It makes the teacher look good and his resume is enhanced if the groups get high ratings, but he is hired to educate the students and make it possible for them participate fully in the course. To excuse this behavior because it is traditional is like tolerating hazing. IMHO</p>
<p>Unfortunately, this is true. Musicians need to get their “stuff” out and ready, and warm up. While a whole group warmup is part of the rehearsal time, an individual warm up AND the set up should not be. </p>
<p>Do your buses arrive just in the “nick of time”? That seems odd to me. Our school buses arrive at the high school at least 15-20 minutes prior to the start of classes…plus our kids have homeroom first anyway. Where I am., almost all the upperclass students drive and the underclassmen get rides with them…there are practically NO students from the high school riding the bus (another issue for another thread…but that is the way it is). I agree with the band director…the students need to be there ON TIME…meaning that the rehearsal begins when the first period time begins…not ten minutes later.</p>
<p>NOW…regarding the verbal tongue lashings…I feel this is inappropriate, but my experience is many fine artists tend to be VERY tempermental personalities. Still, I would discuss this issue. BUT I would start with the teacher. In my school, if a parent goes to the administration with any class related concern…the adminstrator would first say “have you discussed this with the teacher?” If parents are unwilling to do this…that’s another issue. BUT perhaps a group could go together…not in a confrontational way…but in a concerned one.</p>
<p>AND lastly…agreed…with music, you can’t have 80% or 90% accuracy. You need close to 100% accuracy. Let’s face it, if one person is playing the wrong notes, THAT will be heard even if 99 are playing the correct ones. AND if the principal trumpet, the oboe (usually only one or two in a band) or the tuba are missing, the ensemble will sound less than complete.</p>
<p>And from personal experience…the two BEST musical mentors I worked with were also the BEST musicians and the folks from whom I learned the most. And I adored them both despite their somewhat aggressive verbal behavior.</p>
<p>It’s just not right to penalize a student’s grade because he is only on time to school! I would encourage you to complain by following appropriate channels. First, speak to the band director himself and explain that driving your child to school isn’t working for you. (Is there a fellow band member he’d be comfortable hitching a ride with?) Depending on the reception offered by the BD, proceed to the building administrator. This would never be allowed for an English or science teacher, for example. Teachers can’t require a student to come to school early on a routine basis. This is impacting his grade. It’s more than an EC.</p>
<p>If you are unable to the bus system (which you help pay for) because of this man, something’s wrong. Just my opinion.</p>
<p>No other class would get away with requiring the student to be there early. Just imagine if all of them started taking off points because the kids were not in the seats 10 minutes before the bell rings…</p>
<p>I ask again…if first period begins at 7:30…do the buses ARRIVE at 7:30? I would think NOT. In most high schools, the buses arrive well in advance of the start of the first class and the kids “mill around” the halls. Asking them to come to the band room instead is NOT unreasonable, in my opinion, especially since it sounds like many are running in AT the sound of that 7:30 bell and taking up time to get settled, set up and such.</p>
<p>Gee, I drove my kids to band for years. Band is an extracurricular activity, even if it is technically a class that meets one hour a day, because you have performances, marching band, football/basketball games, etc. Our jazz combo met at 7:30 before school, jazz ensemble at 3:30 after school, and marching band 6-9 TTh for all of first semester. </p>
<p>I expected S to be there and ready to go on time. Don’t know about the band director. So the bus was never an option. I say it’s pretty typical.</p>
<p>Our band director was not good at all, not very knowledgeable, jealous of the good kids, and mean.</p>
<p>AT my daughters high school during marching band season the band kids had to be at school almost an hour before school started every day for marching practice. Also had at least a couple of evening sectionals. For swim team (and tennis and football for son) they were there at least two hours after school finished every day.</p>
<p>If the kids want to be involved in activities such as band you will probably have to drive them there in the mornings and frequently pick them up in the evenings. Goes with the territory.</p>
<p>Sure band is an extracurricular, and yeah you need alot of before and after school hours/driving/fund raising/practicing/performing. And yes, being on time for band is classically thought of as being “late.” But it is unfair for bus riders who arrive ON TIME and get to first period ON TIME to be docked a grade because they do not get driven to school early. This is an academic class not just an extra curricular. When it is BOTH, there has to be some separation between the academics and the extra-curricular when it comes to assigning grades.</p>
<p>If the band director chooses to place a student in a lower chair, not reward them with solos, etc, well you have to decide priorities. BUT TO GET A LOWER GRADE seems inappropriate. I would discuss this with someone in the front office at school. Administration needs to know that this is happening. It may run counter to rules and regs. If it doesn’t, then you know and decide accordingly. </p>
<p>My D played violin, then changed to the bassoon when there were no orchestra opportunities in elementery and middle school, only band. Everyone asked why she did not continue into high school with the band. Her overall band experience was great, as was her love of music. But it was the band directors…</p>
<p>Similarly, it’s unfair to the rest of the band to have one or two people skate in late, be getting out their instruments and tuning, while the band is trying to get some actual progress done.</p>
<p>I’m sorry. It’s how ensembles are. It takes extra commitment. If a student can’t find a way to be warmed up when the director takes the podium, then it’s probably better that they not be involved.</p>
<p>When my kids were in HS, they had “regular” band, and “selective” band…the same with chorus’s. The regular band was done during school hours, very good director, etc. They had the “selective” group after school…they were usually in both chorus’s, but had additional work afterschool. There are 2 late buses also, one an hour after school ends, the second one was 3 hours after school ended. This acommodated all the ec’s and sports teams, pretty much. Though, as was mentioned by another poster…most of the older kids drove themselves or got rides.</p>
<p>My kids participated in alot of ec’s…I would not have ever liked the idea of having to get up to drive them in early, lol. I also live in NJ, and taxes here are crazy…so, there are certain things we expect from the school system to validate why we pay so much. I know we have alot of dual working parents, single parents etc…I think it is unreasonable to put the extra pressure on parents, just to ensure our kids don’t get their grade lowered for being “late”, when they aren’t late. I have a son who’s a senior at Oberlin as a vocal performance major…so, yes there was a ton of driving him places, and going on trips etc…but these were all totally part of the afterschool things…not his “regular” chorus class. I think I would have resented not catching a break on either end of the day, if I had to drive early all through high school too. There totally are ways for a school admin to work that situation out. I would do as suggested by alot of other people. Talk to a few of the other parents who feel the same way, and speak to the teacher directly first…if nothing happened, I would go to the head of the music dept (if that isn’t him)…and last step would be to the school principal/admin. The main issue I have with this whole thing is that, I"m sure the entire group of kids, will not end up staying with their instrument forever…those who are born to play, will play happily afterschool…just like all the sports players love what they do after school. On that subject…I’m sure the gym teacher would love to have the kids all dressed and out on the field warmed up 15 minutes before class too…but, its seriously unreasonable to expect that out of students! They cram alot into a short amount of time as it is.</p>