<p>I was recently in a discussion with several people about institutions who measure student interest as a means of deciding who to admit into their freshman classes.</p>
<p>My question to parents (and students) is if a student is perhaps wait-listed at an institution, do you consider it ethical for the school to call them to find out if they are still interested before determing if they should be admitted?</p>
<p>I do have concerns about schools that give points for things like phone calls, emails and visits. Not everyone can afford visits, and some families may not realise the importance of showing interest. Plus, I think that there is a lot of potential for savvy students to game the system.</p>
<p>With all that said, it doesn’t particularly bother me for a university to contact wait-listed students to see if they are still interested before deciding to admit them. By wait-list time, it’s already pretty late, so they need to work efficiently. Why waste time considering students who don’t want to go, since this will hold up the process (and prolong the anxiety) for wait-listed students who really do want to attend?</p>
<p>I think it’s ethical as long as the school acknowledges that this is a factor. This isn’t just about yield; schools have a legitimate interest in favoring students who will be excited, enthusiastic freshmen. I only have a problem with it if the school hides the truth about its interest in this factor.</p>
<p>I do not know how common it is for college adcoms to call perspective students on the q\waitlist, but the college Adcoms have a difficult job. They want to admit the “best” class possible while offering admission to the optimum number of students. Too few and they loose revenue. Too many and housing problems crop up. In fact I am usually amazed how accurate the final frosh enrollment numbers are.</p>
<p>Now colleges tempted to use the waitlist as a way to improve selectivity numbers and USN rankings are indeed playing an unethical game IMHO.</p>
<p>I don’t know whether it’s “ethical” or not, but is it something we should use to our advantage? Is there a list somewhere of which schools do this, so that if our student is interested in those schools, they could increase their contacts with that school? My son tends to ignore all the mail he gets – even if it’s from a school he’s interested in. Should he be sending back those cards?</p>
<p>How is this as full disclosure? From the UChicago website:</p>
<p>Wait list When you get a decision in the mail, youll either get a letter of rejection, a letter of admittance, or a letter offering a place on the waitlist. We think you know what the first two mean. If youre offered a spot on the wait list though, you need to either accept or reject it. If you want to still be considered for admission to Chicago, you should claim your spot on the wait list and start talking to your admissions counselor. Tell him or her how awesome you are, how much you love Chicago, and send in more credentials to prove your wonderfulness. The rates of acceptance of waitlisted candidates vary greatly from year to year.</p>
<p>Each of my children got one waitlist. Each school required the student to fill out a reply as to whether they wished to remain on the waitlist or not. In one case, she had to opt for saying no thanks, or staying on waitlist or being put on Priority Waitlist which involved sending a deposit within 24 hours if accepted off that Priority waitlist.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t go so far as to call it “unethical” but I might say it is a little bit unfair to put a kid on the spot like that. The flip side, is it unethical for a kid to approach 5 schools with expressions of interest as if each school is his number one choice?</p>
<p>I believe it makes good business sense to call the app to see if they are still interested. Many colleges don’t start going to their wait lists until mid-May at the earliest. Thus, mailing a letter and waiting for a written reply and deposit takes at least two weeks just to process, i.e., early June. In the meantime, the wait-listed kid is holding a spot at another college and holding up that college’s wait list processing; thus, the trickle effect could take a several months. A phone call only take a few minutes…</p>
<p>Sure, it’s ethical. Institutions are under no obligation to select any particular students, and can use whatever measures that they deem appropriate in filling up their class.</p>
<p>Given the restrictions of time, why should a college bother accepting someone off the wait list who isn’t likely to accept the offer? That delay may prevent the college from accepting someone who’ll accept the space. The college doesn’t have forever to fill up its class.</p>
<p>It’s also wise for the college to have a system of weeding out people who may choose to stay on the waitlist only for bragging rights if they bag another acceptance even though they know that they don’t plan to attend the college.</p>
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<p>I read an article somewhere (might have been linked from CC) that said part of the reason some qualified kids have a hard time getting into the top schools is that their families “don’t know how to apply”, including that they underestimate the importance of showing enthusiasm for the school. So I would say, yes, if he’s sincerely interested, he should show it. </p>
<p>Another (and perhaps better) reason to send in those cards is that making these sorts of contacts early with a school can also help him to better understand specifically what the school looks for in an applicant, and will give him more insight into whether the school is really what he’s looking for. </p>
<p>Using D’s situation as an example: Stanford doesn’t give preference to, or even record pre-application contacts, but D. touring at 12 or 13 was invaluable to us for the above reasons. I am not sure she would have make the difficult decisions to go to our state’s math and science high school and, once there, to pursue independent research, if not for the advice from that admissions officer, and the experiences and encouragement she had at Stanford that motivated her to stick with her dream of a career in the sciences.</p>
<p>The Common Data Set that is filled out by most schools now has a question asking the institution what weight (if any) they give interest in the admissions decision. For a discussion:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=145077[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=145077</a></p>
<p>Thank you, Northstarmom, for expressing that.</p>
<p>Admissions offices have a lot of uses for measuring “interest”, imperfect as the science may be. It’s useful to know how likely it is that a prospect will submit an application. It’s useful to know how likely it is that a particular applicant will enroll. It’s useful to know who on your waitlist might say “yes.” They use this to decide where to expend resources (like where to send counselors, who to send a supplemental mailings, where to hold a reception, etc) and to predict yield. It’s not just for nefarious purposes.</p>
<p>Measuring the interest of students on the waitlist vs using expressed interest as a factor in deciding whether or not to offer admission, seems like 2 very different situations to me.</p>
<p>Chicago always has a little bit of fun with their admissions literature…as idad said earlier. I remember the official app deadline is 12 AM on some island out in the middle of the Pacific because it is in the latest possible time zone in the world. It’s a serious school, but they don’t take themselves too seriously.</p>
<p>More on topic however, I don’t think I am too against calling a waitlisted student to see if they’re still interested. By the time schools consider waitlisted students, it’s well on its way into summer, and they don’t have unlimited time to send out acceptances, wait a month or so for responses, send out a second wave of acceptances if the several of the first said no, wait a few more months. They really need to have the incoming class set soon. It’s the same thing dozens of college books will tell about being waitlisted (trust me, I read all of them at the bookstore when I was waitlisted last year)–tell the colleges that you will attend if admitted.</p>
<p>I think its ethical. As northstarmom said, colleges can choose how they want to admit students. </p>
<p>Another question… Since showing a lot of interest means that you “crave” that school, doesn’t it ultimately help the school? Students are happier because they want to be there and have visited so they know what to expect. Consequently, there is a higher retention and graduation rate. Is this valid reasoning?</p>
<p>“Tell him or her how awesome you are, how much you love Chicago, and send in more credentials to prove your wonderfulness. The rates of acceptance of waitlisted candidates vary greatly from year to year.”</p>
<p>There’s no evidence that politicking if placed on a waitlist makes one whit of difference, and with good reason. The colleges are building a class, not accepting a bunch of individuals. They will quite naturally go through a list of their needs (enough engineering students, egyptology students, bassoon players, football tailbacks, etc.) and use the waiting list to fill in their needs. Depending on the school, they will also check to see whether, among those who have accepted a place, they have over- or under-expended the financial aid budget, and determine taking folks off the waiting list accordingly. Finally, there are schools which likely use the waiting list for average SAT padding. </p>
<p>Some schools, as a courtesy, put all legacy rejects on the waiting list, with no intention of ever talking to them again.</p>
<p>Well, I think its OK to send back the card with a note, like “very interested”. I think an extra letter, with real updates on classes, awards, can be helpful.</p>
<p>“There’s no evidence that politicking if placed on a waitlist makes one whit of difference…”</p>
<p>Perhaps politicking won’t help. but sincerely showing interest, sending more letters, etc. can certainly help at some schools (such as Chicago). I have seen many examples of students helping there cause over the years. Actually here is my all time favorite from UChicago:</p>
<p>Decision: Deferred, Waitlisted, Accepted!</p>
<p>Stats:
SAT: 1560 (800V/760M)
SAT IIs: Writing, 800; Literature, 740; Biology M, 720.
GPA: 2.7u/3.2w
Rank: Unranked
Other stats: 34 ACT composite.
Subjective:
Essays: The best pieces of writing I’ve ever produced.
Teacher Recs: Incredible. One teacher told me, “I’ve never compared anyone to Jesus before, but I came damned close in this letter.” Another is locally renowned for her letters. Another said she wrote “a damned good letter,” which must be great, coming from her. The head of school wrote one too, and she loves me.
Counselor Rec: Fair, I guess. He doesn’t know much about me.
Hook (if any): Conversations with a few Chicago alums.
Location/Person:
State or Country: Connecticut, USA.
School Type: Public
Ethnicity: White
Gender: Male
Major strength/weakness: My essays and recommendations / grades, respectively.
Why you think you were accepted/rejected/defered: I pushed really hard for this. (More below.)
Other Factors:
I did pretty much everything I could to get in here. After I got the waitlist letter, I e-mailed Jenny Connell at least once a week updating her on what I’d been doing; I mailed essays and certificates and such once in a while; I had teachers send additional letters and got letters from new teachers; I asked everyone I could about finding a Chicago alum who would talk to me. (I ended up speaking with three different Chicago grads who contacted Ted O’Neill for me.) I showed the University that I wanted to be there before anywhere else, and it worked; I couldn’t have been more excited when Ms. Connell called.</p>
<p>Looks like pure SAT padding to me.</p>
<p>Hey, I’m not against anyone doing what they feel they need to do - at least if they don’t get in, they’ll feel like they gave it their best shot. But if it made a difference, you’d see folks with lots of bucks hiring “managers” to do it for 'em.</p>
<p>(maybe they are! ;))</p>