<p>For all of you worried meat eaters out there, let me reassure you that this report is totally bogus, and not backed up by any hard science. This conclusion was reached by linking together a number of studies that had no statistical significance and combining them in a way that did. The “consensus” panel did not release the underlying data, the actual paper, or the statistics that support their conclusion. The group that released this study result, which was covered by every major media outlet yesterday is the “American Institute for Cancer Research”, a privately funded organization.
It seems quite clear to me that there was significant bias here to come up with the “right” result. Anytime a report says it is a “consensus”, you have to be suspicious, because science is not done by consensus.</p>
<p>As a GI doc, I understand how much patients want to feel that they can lower their cancer risk (in my specialty specifically for colorectal CA) by eating a “healthy” diet. Unfortunately the data does not support any effect.</p>
<p>I was astonished to hear one of the “panel” releasing their info yesterday on the radio making all sorts of recommendations for diet that are simply not supported by any science whatsoever. I’ll be interested to see what happens when they finally release the actual data for this report… I predict it will be discounted. So no need to become a vegetarian yet.</p>
<p>Oh there are all those stories some time this is good some time the same thing is bad.</p>
<p>Yesterday the wife unit heard on Oprah that India has virtually no cases of Alzheimer disease, and it is attributed to the use of Turmeric (that yellow powder) in our cooking.</p>
<p>And now you can buy Turmeric tablets.</p>
<p>One sure use I know is that it is more effective in treating bleeding after I cut myself shaving.</p>
<p>Interesting that you mention about the Turmeric. It is quite true that there is a very low incidence of Alzheimer’s in India. And there is a very high ingestion of curry. The active ingredient in the yellow powder is thought to be Curcumin, which has been studied in scientific studies as an anti cancer compound. It does have some mild effect on cancer, but not enough to be used successfully for chemo… however what’s important here is that it has been tested already for safety and appears to be quite safe, even in refined form. With regard to it’s effect on Alzheimer’s, studies have shown that curcumin has some in-vitro effects which can destroy amyloid plaque, which is felt might be the protein which causes nerve cell death in Alzheimer’s. There are several controlled clinical trials going on now to see if Curcumin capsules will help Alzheimer patients. No results yet.</p>
<p>Respectfully, the 2nd link you posted was about a low-fat diet. That is not synonymous with a vegetarian diet. Although meat contains fat, it is possible to eat some meat and still maintain a low-fat diet overall, and, conversely, be a vegetarian and eat a lot of fat.</p>
<p>Vegan diets, which contain no animal products at all, tend to be very low-fat. But just avoiding meat does not make one vegan.</p>
<p>While fat is thought to be the explanation as to why studies have shown lower incidences of cancer among vegetarians, there are other components in meat besides fat.</p>
<p>So the study about the low-fat diet doesn’t necessarily mean anything regarding the consumption of meat. Furthermore, fats are not all considered equal. Processed fats are not in the same category as unprocessed fats. Did the study make a distinction between the type of fat consumed?</p>
<p>Also, in all fairness, while this particular study may have had some erros or misrepresentations, it is but one of many. There are numerous studies showing lower incidences of many major degenerative diseases, not just cancer, among vegetarians.</p>
<p>I was going to post a few of the other studies, but when I did searches on ‘vegetarian cancer study’ and ‘meat cancer study’ I got so many hits that they are too numerous to post.</p>
<p>Here is one that I found particularly interesting, since the major factor at issue was being vegetarian (no meat, no poultry, no fish) rather than low-fat:</p>
<p>Low fat diet is the key, not vegetarian. BIL is a vegetarian but develop diabetes type II, he was told by doctor to add white meat back to his diet and the diabetes went away.
Lots of vegetarian fried their vegetables to make them tasty.
My H and I love Indian food too, but I had to stay away from it due to the richness of the food. I also notice Indian cardiologist doing very well. So if you don’t die of cancer, or Alzheimer, you will probably die of a heart attack.</p>
<p>There are so many factors affecting life expectancy. Do some research on the Hunzas. They traditionally have lived to be over 100, often 120 - and they continued climbing up the mountain and working hard til the day they suddenly dropped dead. In the past 40 years or so, though, with the introduction of junk food, the younger generation has shortened their lifespan dramatically to only about 80, if I remember correctly, while their parents (who reject the junk food in favor of their traditional vegetarian diet including raw goat’s milk) continue to out live them by 20+ years.</p>
<p>99cents, your post is a bit misleading. You seem to imply that eating meat prevents diabetes and being vegetarian contributes to diabetes. But with diabetes, it’s the sugar, the processed carbs, the fat…your friend probably didn’t JUST ‘add meat’ but probably decreased his sugar, fat, etc. People have a tendency to oversimplify when in actuality there are many factors that contribute to their condition.</p>
<p>I’ve known vegans who smoked cigarrettes! and they lived on processed sugar. Not healthy at all!</p>
<p>You are right that a lot of vegetarians make the mistake of overindulging in fatty foods. It is entirely possible to eat meat in moderation, exercise, eat healthy fruits and veggies, and be healthier than a vegetarian who lives on high-fat and processed foods.</p>
<p>However, you will find health-conscious people among vegetarians and meat-eaters. There are junk food junkies in both categories. Despite this, the final statistics STILL show much lower incidences of cancer, diabetes, heart disease, etc. among the vegetarians, overall. So the meat is a factor unto itself, separate from the fat issue, evidently.</p>
<p>My niece is a vegetarian (though not vociferous about it; she’ll eat some meat with us). Her friends were astonished when they saw her eating Cheetos. Her response: “There’s nothing animal in these! In fact there’s nothing natural at all! Remember, vegetarian doesn’t necessarily mean healthy!”</p>
<p>Yeah, that always blows my mind. But then, I am vegetarian for ethical AND health reasons. People choose to be vegetarian for many different reasons. It’s not always about health. Nonetheless, as a group they tend to be healthier overall, and that says something.</p>
<p>The study that was quoted regarding vegeterians having a lower risk of colon cancer is the usual poorly done study where they made prospective groups of patients that were followed in a nutrition clinic for other reasons. Then they constructed control groups of similar makeup. Quite dubious as a scientific study, despite being presented as an abstract at the G.I. meetings. In addition this effect was only seen for lifelong vegeterians! So if you are 20-30 and you become a vegeterian, this data does not apply to you at all. </p>
<p>There is no good hard science that I am aware of that shows any benefit to switching to a vegeterian diet with regard to cancer. If you want to be a vegeterian for other reasons… personal preference or belief, fine with me. But it does upset me when people try to promote such a diet on others because of the so called proven health benefits. There are actually many negative health effects that can occur from vegeterianism if patients take inadequate protein or fat, especially in women if they do not have a good source of iron. I have seen it in my practice. Humans throughout evolutionary history have been omnivores, and there are certain essential amino acids and nutrients that are only found in meat. I am quite skeptical of the claim that a vegeterian diet is “healthier”.</p>
<p>The more important question is whether there really is an increased risk of developing cancer associated with eating meat, which would have to be answered in a long term prospective study, similar to the one done at Harvard regarding benefits of a low fat diet. It doesn’t really make sense to me that no effect would occur with low fat (i.e very little meat), yet there would be a dramatic effect with no meat.</p>
<p>Oh and here’s another one that will probably upset some.
There’s no scientific evidence that processed carbs are bad either, unless you become obese. That’s what’s called a secondary effect.<br>
The bad effects are from the obesity, not from the carbs themselves.
So if you eat Frosted Mini Wheats every morning and you run 40 miles a week, and are thin… they will not have any negative health effect at all.</p>
<p>Most of nutrition as presented to the public is pseudoscience. That means anyone can make claims without doing a study. Good studies are really expensive and take a really long time, so mostly they are not done.
People then are free to make up stuff, and just because something seems like it’s unhealthy then you can make claims that it is, and people will think it’s true. That’s why there is so much conflicting information out there. Most of it is not valid. </p>
<p>Another example… Atkins diet vs. low fat diet.
They finally did a carefully controlled study… two groups of patients, matched and prospectively followed.
Atkins patients ate meat, cheese, all sorts of high cholesterol foods.</p>
<p>Atkins beat the low fat diet for weight loss, and there was NO increase in cardiac risk in the Atkins patients. Make sense?<br>
No. But that’s science.</p>
<p>Which amino acids? Are you saying that protein combining (rice+beans, beans+cheese, etc) to balance all the amino acids is not true?</p>
<p>Most cases of deficiency among vegetarians are seen among vegans, who eat no eggs or dairy. But when people refer to these, they often use the term ‘vegetarian’ and don’t make the distinction.</p>
<p>I think you can find studies to back up whatever you want to believe. Contrasting the Adkins study, there are the Ornish/McDougall/Whitaker cases.</p>
<p>Maybe diet is not a one-size-fits-all and people should just use common sense.</p>
<p>Common sense would dictate that highly processed foods (devoid of their naturally occurring minerals and laden with chemicals) cannot possibly be as healthy as one consisting of whole, pesticide-free, hormone-free foods.</p>
<p>sorry, I did misstate that. Complete proteins which contain all essential amino acids are found in meat, fish, eggs, and dairy products.
So a vegetarian that eats eggs and dairy will get all essential amino acids.
Legumes and grains contain incomplete proteins, which are missing some essential amino acids… you can combine them, however to get all the amino acids.</p>
<p>Thanks for the clarification. Why, then, would it be a concern at all, provided the vegetarian either includes eggs and/or dairy, or combines proteins? This is common knowledge among vegetarians, btw.</p>
<p>Vegan diets are much, much lower in fat than the typical SAD (Standard American DIEt). </p>
<p>And, the type of fat is very important. ‘Healthy’ fats from nuts and seeds are necessary for health, especially hormonal health. Coconut oil has many health benefits attributed to it. Undoubtedly you have heard of the health benefits of Omega 3 oils, essential fatty acids, etc. Not in the same category as trans fats and rancid oils from fast food. </p>