<p>Apparently, the median private sector salaries from graduates from the t14 (and some out of the top 14 too- UCLA, USC, Texas, ect.), are at around $160,000.</p>
<p>Somehow, I find this hard to believe. I seriously doubt that the average graduate from these schools is able to land a BIGLAW job paying that much. And considering that some forms of law (IP, corporate), are paid more than others, I find it hard to believe that an “average” lawyer working the private sector receives so much money.</p>
<p>What would be a more accurate representation on one’s chances for scoring a biglaw job paying 160,000 from a t14 school? And which forms of law (for example, corporate[not in-house], and IP) within the private sector would most likely be paid this much as a starting salary?</p>
<p>The chance of obtaining a biglaw job paying $160,000 depends on which of the T-14 you’re talking about. For YHS, probably upwards of 80%, but CCN could be closer to 60-70%, and decreasing as you go down. The best way to look at this information is the NLJ250 firm data (below), and Article III clerkship numbers. </p>
<p>[Law</a> School Transparency NLJ 250](<a href=“http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/tag/nlj-250/]Law”>http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/tag/nlj-250/)</p>
<p>From what I know of hiring, IP is seen as a more secure employment field, but it requires prerequisite degrees and knowledge. But corporate is very popular in New York, and otherwise litigation seems to be the next largest field.</p>
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<p>That is not necessarily true. The law schools that have the most success placing graduates into the biggest (and typically highest paying) law firms are all T14 law schools; however, the order is not the same as most top law school lists. Why? Some T14 law schools place more students into clerkships (with relatively lower pay) and into public interest jobs. Some T14 law schools simply aren’t as successful at placing students who wish to work there into top-paying law firms. Of course, some graduates don’t try to work at a NLJ250 firm. </p>
<p>eagle2012’s citation to the NLJ250 (National Law Journal’s list of the 250 law firms with the most attorneys) is a good one (though not a primary source), and points out that the following law schools have placed the highest percentage of their graduates into the NLJ250 (which are typically the highest-paying law firms):</p>
<ol>
<li> Chicago</li>
<li> Cornell</li>
<li> Columbia</li>
<li> Penn</li>
</ol>
<p>These four law schools are the only ones to place over 50% of their graduates into the NLJ250. </p>
<p>The remainder of the top 10 follows:</p>
<ol>
<li> Harvard</li>
<li> Virginia</li>
<li> California - Berkeley</li>
<li> Northwestern</li>
<li> NYU</li>
<li> Michigan</li>
</ol>
<p>Michigan places 42.47% of its graduates into the NLJ250. Every other law school places fewer than 42% of its graduates into the NLJ250.</p>
<p>I think eagle is roughly correct once you (as he/she suggests) consider clerkships. If you added in federal clerkships, I think the list would start to look very much like USN’s list.</p>
<p>Can environmental lawyers, real estate lawyers, tax lawyers, litigation attorneys, and other subtypes of law besides corporate and IP make 160,000 at top firms?</p>
<p>Yes. Associates in different practice areas are usually paid the same. Obviously if you want to be an environmental lawyer for the NRDC or whatnot, they don’t pay “market rates.”</p>
<p>Not to keep beating a dead horse (there have been so many threads about this already), but did you see the article in the 2012 edition of US News and World Report on starting salaries for lawyers? $160K is not realistic anymore. I do wonder whether the figure is based on salary though, or salary + bonus. I conceed it’s possible that an annual bonus might lift the number to $160K at some firms.</p>
<p>If our Fort 500 was hiring (which it isn’t), the starting salary would be closer to $60-$75K depending on whether the position was in corporate headquarters or a subsidiary. We are not in NYC/Boston/Chicago etc. though, where both cost of living and salaries are higher. We have no shortage of applicants, including applicants from T14 schools and applicants who have been laid off from biglaw firms.</p>
<p>“I think eagle is roughly correct once you (as he/she suggests) consider clerkships. If you added in federal clerkships, I think the list would start to look very much like USN’s list.”</p>
<p>This is important because clerkships are arguably the most sought after positions (more sought after than biglaw) for students at elite law schools.</p>
<p>“$160K is not realistic anymore. I do wonder whether the figure is based on salary though, or salary + bonus. I conceed it’s possible that an annual bonus might lift the number to $160K at some firms.”</p>
<p>It’s realistic. It’s just fewer people are getting those positions. But, when you are talking about the top of the T14, those position are still very viable options.</p>
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<p>But the vast majority of the clerks will go on to biglaw, so the stats are a little misleading.</p>
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<p>It was never realistic for most law students. It’s still realistic for some of them, just not as many as a few years ago.</p>
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<p>OK, but this is for a non-law firm in a non-major market. I wouldn’t expect the salaries to be comparable.</p>
<p>Sally, my point was that those graduates who go into Art III clerkships are almost always competitive for Biglaw jobs. Ex: Yale and Stanford don’t place the highest #'s into the NLJ250 firms, but if you account for the self-selection of their graduates into academia, clerkships, or prestigious government positions. </p>
<p>So therefore, I think odds of obtaining a market-paying biglaw position “roughly” decreases as you go down. YHS > CCN > PVM > the rest, although Cornell had great placement this year (after mediocre placement the year before).</p>
<p>I agree that most students who obtain Article III clerkships are usually competitive for Biglaw jobs. I believe that approximately 25 - 30% of Yale graduates do clerkships following graduation (all clerkships, not just federal). For Harvard, Chicago and Stanford, the percentage drops to approximately 15 - 20%. At other T14 law schools, fewer than approximately 10% of graduates do clerkships (led by Columbia, Duke, Northwestern and Penn). </p>
<p>(Note - these numbers are all for graduates doing clerkships immediately following graduation. There are some number of attorneys who do clerkships one or more years following graduation.)</p>
<p>It is also important to note that law firms do play favorites when hiring at Biglaw firms. There are certain law schools that various law firms “like” more, hiring a greater number of new associates from these law schools year after year.</p>
<p>BCG reported 41% for YLS in clerkships, but not sure what timeframe they’re using.
<a href=“http://www.bcgsearch.com/pdf/BCG_Law_School_Guide_2009.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bcgsearch.com/pdf/BCG_Law_School_Guide_2009.pdf</a></p>
<p>Also for some reason their 2009 report uses 2006 data. It feels higher to me than 41%.</p>
<p>Maybe lawyers really do fit the stereotype, and cannot do math. There’s a pretty simple explanation for the OP’s stats.</p>
<p>We are talking about median, not mean. It’s not hard to believe that most T14 schools can (and do) send most of their graduates to biglaw, which pays $160,000 in a large majority of cases. If most of these schools are sending most their grads to biglaw, then it’s not hard to imagine that at least 50% of graduates are in biglaw making 160,000 a year. If the “middle person” makes $160,000 then the median is 160,000.</p>
<p>The mean is probably far lower, as salaries probably drop dramatically from that 160,000 to roughly 50,000 most of the non-biglaw people.</p>