<p>Okay, so I haven’t started studying Medieval Latin yet, but I’ve heard rumors that it is “easier” than Classical Latin. I was told that it lacks some of the grammatical constructions (maybe the ablative absolute?) found in earlier Latin. If anyone knows anything about the distinction between Classical and Medieval Latin, you have a captive audience at your disposal right here!</p>
<p>Also, I would like to learn more about the Toronto Latin exam. All I know right now is that there is an MA version and a PhD version. And that it’ supposed to be hard. </p>
<p>Medieval Latin - ah, what a hairball. The annoying thing is that there isn’t just one Medieval Latin, time period, location, how well educated the writer was - all impact what ends up on the page. This was likely true in Classical times as well (vide Pompeian graffitti and the Vindolanda tablets) but since everything we have tends to come from a very small set of manuscripts we tend to see a single consisten set of forms.</p>
<p>Medieval Latin is easy if you’ve taken Classical Latin. It’s easy in the sense that once you know one Romance language, you’re theoretically better able to absorb the others, or once you know one language, you’ve broken the barrier of picking up another grammatical and syntactical system and won’t have such a block in the way of picking up another.</p>
<p>In other words, if you want to take it because you think it would be easier than Classical Latin, think again.</p>
<p>As far as the Toronto M.A./Ph.D Latin exams go… let me just copy/paste their philosophy to give you an idea of what they expect:</p>
<p>Thanks! And in answer to your question, I’m majoring in history and classics. I got off to a rough start in Greek, though, so my career as a Byzantist (if that’s a word) or New Testament scholar was over before it began.</p>
<p>WilliamC, thanks for the quick response. I’m curious-- you seem to be the go-to guy for all things Classical around here. What’s your current position in the classical world-- grad student, advanced undergraduate, professor, etc.?</p>
<p>I’m a late bloomer (I’m 54) and I just wrapped up my BA in Classics at Penn. I completely struck out on grad school this year so I’m doing the Penn post-bac program this Fall. (Its just as well, I probably would have had a hard time selling my house anyway!)</p>
<p>As a data point for others my stats were:</p>
<p>3.63 GPA, 4 years Latin, 2 years Greek, Nassau Fund Award (undergrad research grant), Rose Award (undergrad research writing award), and 710V, 700Q, 5.5 AW GRE. And of course LORs from some pretty well known professors.</p>
<p>What I think killed my apps:</p>
<p>no modern language (i.e. German)
no upper level Greek
too tight a focus in my SOP</p>
<p>So in addition to more Greek and Latin next year, I’ll also take elementary German, I have a poster session idea of the AIA annual meeting, and I’ll re-focus my SOP to be less specific so I can more easily apply to a wider range of schools.</p>
<p>So if you don’t mind me asking, why the late-blooming? Is this your first degree, or are you trying to start a new career? And that’s too bad about grad school. I’m afraid that’s what will happen to me, so I’m desperately trying to work out a couple of tolerable back-up plans. Unfortunately, the only one that comes to mind right now is high school Latin teacher (or some other subject, maybe English composition). I’ve had some German, but that was two years ago, before I decided I was going to try the Classics-history grad school thing, so I’m trying to figure out a way to fit that into my schedule again.</p>
<p>Does Penn have a good Classics program? I had an ancient history professor who did his PhD there, but by the time I took his class he was old and worn out and retired the following year. I wasn’t impressed with him or his class. Can you tell me more about the Classics post-bac program?</p>
<p>My instructor for Latin 2 this semester got her M.A. after a post-bacc from Penn. She’s working through her well-funded PhD at Berkeley right now. She definitely emphasized the strong knowledge and number of languages; Classics majors have it rough, being expected to know both Latin and Greek as well as the reading knowledge of 2 modern languages for their research (ie, the modern languages). It’s a heckuva lot to fit into a graduate program that only gives you 3 or so years of coursework, so they really do expect you to have most of it out of the way before you start.</p>
<p>herodotus53 - well… I had majored in Computer Science, was set to graduate, get married, had a job lined up, and realized with 2 quarters to go that I <em>REALLY</em> would rather major in Classics. But, well… that didn’t make sense. So I did all that stuff and just let things slide for a while (the late 70’s were FUN). And then family, no convenient university, etc…</p>
<p>By chance I ended up working 3 blocks from Penn so I took advantage.</p>
<p>Anyway, Penn’s Classics department is an “up and coming” one. In the 5 years I’ve been here we’ve lost, I believe, one professor to Princeton while adding 5 more: 3 young guys, 2 more senior people and a 2 year post-doc position. They are adding some more advanced undergrad classes in the languages (essentially grad level reading classes with a bit less research emphasis). Even so the department is small enough that you can get all the personal attention you can handle, the weekly colloquia give everybody plenty of social face time… its really a great place. The only weakness is that Greek and Latin comp are not (yet) required for the “real” major. </p>
<p>The post-bac program is basically grad level reading classes in Latin and Greek each semester. You can also take any other related classes that fit your time slots and budget. There are workshops on graduate application procedures, writing SOPs and so forth. The REALLY big advantage is that its about half-off the normal Penn tuition. Not as good as a fully funded graduate program, but better than regular undergrad!</p>
<p>And of course for me, I can keep working full time (though that is discouraged) and just walk to class whenever its scheduled.</p>
<p>Is the Penn post-bac program open to those beyond the intermediate level in ancient languages, such as those with 4 years in greek, 3 in latin? I was just wondering if it is an acceptable back-up program for someone with 4/3 in ancient languages. I heard that post-bac programs were originally for those with, say 2 years in each language, but even competition getting into post-bacs has become stiffer. </p>
<p>Also, about how many years of course work is it in grad school? I always thought it was 2 years masters, 3 PHD, or is it just 3 years total?</p>
<p>AMB2005 - yes, Penn’s post-bac actually prefers people at “upper level” in both languages. On the first day of class they give all the new folks (you can stick around for 2 years without too much grovelling) a sight reading test in both languages to determine the appropriate courses. Details are here:</p>
<p>Incidentally, they have rolling admissions so it’s not too late to apply.</p>
<p>As to years in grad school - in a perfect world you’d be able to do a masters in 2 years followed by three more for the PhD. In the real world, the MA seems to take 3 years, followed by 3 or 4 more for the PhD. And that’s if you have minimal teaching responsibilities, use the summers effectively for modern language and prelim. prep., are never sick, don’t burn out, and have no snags in your diss. research and writing.</p>
<p>Personally, I’m planning to advance directly to emeritus status after I get my PhD ;-)</p>