But the quote being used to support the point that UVA did not expel people guilty of sexual assault does not actually support that point. The headline of the story says it is so, and the author says it is true in the body of the piece, but no where does the interviewee actually say it. It is what it is. By the way, the UVA current policy is here, http://www.virginia.edu/sexualviolence/documents/sexual_misconduct_policy070811.pdf
Page 4 defines sexual misconduct. The policies are similar. UVA breaks it out differently, and technically would count a non consensual french kiss as “sexual intercourse” which is obviously sexual misconduct.
R here is the reporter. E is Eramo. Reading this transcript (mine) makes it clear that they are talking about cases where the the alleged offender admits to sexual assault (not some lesser offense) and is not expelled. The reporter clearly thinks this is a questionable practice. If Eramo believed that no offenders actually admitted to sexual assault-- they only admitted to lesser offenses-- she would have said that during the five minutes that the reporter was pressing her on the issue.
</punitive?>
And I don’t know what happened in the Heyman case. I see a couple articles where she says her assailant admitted to raping her. I see one where she says he admitted to sexual assault. The closest I could get to the facts while I am supposed to be working is an article where she says that he admitted to assaulting her by dint of a text message which said words to the effect of “because you got hurt, yes”.
My particular feeling is that a college sophomore who signs a confidentiality agreement which says nothing in the mediation can be used in a further university proceeding should be smart enough to know that does not preclude her from going to the police, especially if she has a text message where her assailant admits raping her. I also think it stretches the bounds of rationality that two college deans at any point since the 1980s when I was in school would listen to a man admit to rape and then not only not do anything about it, but actively lie about it later. Could all of this happen? Sure, of course. But I would need something more than what is on the table to believe that it did, just based on my own experiences of how people operate and especially what the environment of college campuses has been for my entire adult life.
The article about the UVA dean was used to make the point that colleges do this kind of thing. Guys admit raping women and then they just go about their merry way. And the article certainly tries to make that point. But the interview doesn’t say that, and we should not pretend that it does.
Here’s the definition of sexual assault you provided.
Sexual Assault: Having or attempting to have sexual intercourse, cunnilingus, or fellatio without Consent. Sexual intercourse is defined as anal or vaginal penetration by a ****, tongue, finger, or inanimate object.
How is that not rape? How is that not another name for rape?
https://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2001_02/zug.htm
This was awhile ago… But I like this…
@ohiodad51, yes there have been some (here and as commenters on other articles who have wondered the same thing (re Emma actually having raped Paul) because I believe both admit that Emma was sober and Paul drunk during the alleged attack.
I have been wondering about the John Doe mentioned in the text messages in Paul’s complaint, the one Emma says had sex with her while she was “unconscious” or “blacked out”. This experience she did not think was an assault/rape? Just trying to get a handle on her thinking.
Winston is the number 1 pick in the nfl draft. So much for his life being destroyed. 
I don’t know how may sexual assualts Floyd Mayweather has been accused and convicted of doing. He served a couple of months in jail.
Mayweather is going to make over $150 million on Saturday.
This recent video sums them up pretty well:
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/04/outside-the-lines-floyd-mayweather-domestic-violence
Keith Olbermann on his ESPN segment last Friday called for a boycott of the May 2nd fight and publicly declared that he refuses to watch, promote or report on the fight.
No chance of a boycott - money rules in Vegas.
@cardinalfang, I don’t accept the premise that the UVA dean meant Sexual Assault when she said Sexual Misconduct. That said, I think you are quoting Bucknell’s sexual assault policy, not UVA’s but I think they are pretty close and get your point. As far as the language you quoted, in its simplest form, a simple unwelcome request for fellatio or intercourse is an attempt. I think a more likely scenario involves what people my age would have called third base, and getting a hand slapped away, or a rude request for fellatio. All of which may be rude, but none of which are rape as I understand the term in criminal law.
Let’s assume though for a minute that you are right, and the dean actually meant something different than what she said. Are you taking the position that a nineteen year old boy who is in a disciplinary hearing and admits that he probably should have not tried to put his hand down his date’s pants while they were half naked and making out on her bed should get expelled?
@dstark the problem with acquaintance rape is that there is very often little to go on other than he said she said, which almost definitionally means you can’t prove the rape beyond a reasonable doubt. That is why OCR is so insistent that schools use a preponderance standard, and has been aggressive in investigating schools who they do not believe have bought in to the idea that it should be easier to prove a case of sexual assault. The problem is we are now seeing the backlash, where women either shade the truth or the panel goes to far and then destroys some guys life for a few years. In my opinion, this zeal for lower standards will likely result in a backlash and things will get more difficult for women who have suffered what has been more traditionally defined as rape or sexual assault.
HarvestMoon1, thanks for the video. Mayweather was very smooth when he was asked about domestic violence.
Multiple convictions. He is a boxing champion and he is hitting mothers of his children with closed fists.
@Ohiodad51, I understand your post #170.
A victim of acquaintance rape can’t prove rape beyond a reasonable doubt so going to the police doesn’t work…like I said.
So when I hear…go to the police…I don’t hear a solution…because going to the police isn’t a solution.
I like what the University of Montana was doing. The school just wanted the facts. They weren’t interested in listening to some lawyer distorting the facts of a case. The school wasn’t interested in character assassination. The school wasn’t interested in irrelevant information.
The case against the quarterback of Montana was a tough case. He was ruled not guilty in a court of law. I think that was despite his lawyers, who lied, yelled, and brought up nonsense during the case. That would have been a big turn off if I was on a jury.
However, the school wasn’t interested in theatrics. He was ruled guilty 3 times iincluding appeals using the preponderance of evidence standard. He got off because of a technicality. The school didn’t officially write the change from clear and convincing evidence to preponderance of evidence. You have to dot your Is. 
I am not sure the case did not meet the clear and convincing standard but the president of the school threw the case out.
Plus, the football team had a losing record when the quarterback didn’t play.
The school said we aren’t throwing a student in jail when we are kicking him out. As bad as kicking a student out of school is…that’s a lesser punishment than going to jail so we don’t need the reasonable doubt standard.
I’m taking the position that Virginia expels students every year for cheating, and every year some students are accused of sexual misconduct, some of it severe, yet none of them get expelled. Eramo has been at UVa since 2006, and not one student has been expelled for sexual assault in that time.
Cheat on a math test? Goodbye, you’re out. But somehow, Eramo explains, if students don’t admit their sexual assault, then the board can’t be 100% sure they did it and doesn’t expel, and if they do admit their sexual assault, they should get credit for being stand-up guys and not be expelled. So clearly, cheating on a math test is deemed worse than any sexual assault they’ve found a student guilty of in the last 9 years. Apparently rape is not dishonorable, but plagiarizing is.
Yale expelled three undergraduates for sexual assault just in 2014. There’s no reason to believe that Yale is rapier than UVa, But somehow, UVa, which has about three times as many undergraduates, hasn’t expelled one person for sexual assault in the last decade.
Two issues. One, I would sure hope there are more people on a college campus who would cheat then there are people who would sexually assault someone. Two, I believe the dean said academic misconduct required clear and convincing evidence, while the OCR mandates sexual misconduct requires proof to a preponderance. Which points to a real problem in the current system. You have a high standard of proof for a serious, but not life altering offense, but a lower standard of proof for one of the most severe offenses in our society. I get that people are hesitant to brand someone a rapist just because they think it is slightly more likely than not that non consensual sex occurred. More to the point, I can understand the reluctance of someone to kick a kid out of school if they just think it is more likely than not that someone had drunk sex after a fraternity party. Suspend a kid in that circumstance? Yeah, maybe that is the right call. I can understand that, and I think that is what Eramo said happens. And just because you keep repeating that Eramo said men admit to sexual assault without consequence doesn’t make it true.
You maybe have a point about what Yale is doing, and that UVA is less aggressive in these situations. But UVA is probably bullet proof for a little while now given the Rolling Stone debacle. Which is another reason to avoid hyperbole. It provides cover for what may be actual problems.
A standard is a minimum. @Ohiodad51, you are telling us that nobody has committed a sexual offense at UVA and can be found guilty at a higher standard than preponderance of evidence?
@dstark, but a 36% conviction rate of prosecuted acquaintance rape is still far better than 3%, even accounting for the fact that only 30% of such cases are indicted. Leaving out the number of indicted cases which result in a plea, which my experience tells me is probably a pretty fair number, that is like one out of six in the lowest category of successful rape convictions. My contention is the publication of scare statistics like the 3% figure from the book discourages victims from reporting such events and cooperating with the authorities, which continues to depress the statistics. It is a viscous cycle.
@Ohiodad51, your number is still a low rate.
Man, you guys are relentless! Yeah, 1 in 6 is low. My sister runs a shelter for battered women. It is a very complex problem, and I don’t know how to fix it. I just believe we ought to strive to be as accurate as possible, and not make it harder for someone to make a terribly difficult decision. Not saying you are doing that, but I do think the pumped up statistics do more harm than good.
And yes, the burden of proof is just the minimum. Where exactly did I say that no one at UVA has committed a sexual offense?
You probably did better in your law classes than your stats classes, Ohiodad. 0.30 * 0.36 = .108. It’s not like one out of six. It’s like one out of nine.