<p>In looking for the right fit for my daughter, I have found a couple schools I’d like her to consider that are not ranked as one of the top schools, but one is not even ranked (US NEWS has ranked it but doesn’t publish the number). This is a public school, but it has a separate honors college, on a separate campus, but that honors college is not ranked and reviewed on it’s own. I don’t want to be hung up on rank/prestige, but when the school is not ranked, it might be a tough sell to my D, and we will wonder about the school’s reputation as far as moving on to grad school and/or career. How would you approach finding out more about an honors college within a university to have the information that would help make an informed decision?</p>
<p>Depends on which university. George Washington University and Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology are unranked (due to some date reporting problems) but we all know that both are top private institutions. Now, if they are unranked because they are tier 2 or tier 3, try to avoid them.</p>
<p>Would you mind listing the institution? Many RNP schools are commuter schools, which although they may have many brilliant students who attended them for financial reasons, even the honors college may cater to students who are only moderately above the national average in terms of stats.</p>
<p>Also I was looking through the US News’ list of RNP schools for national LACs and REUs, and saw a few schools with extremely strong academics in one particular area (Northern Arizona’s environmental science) or which have very interesting programs (ex: Warren Wilson).</p>
<p>I can’t remember the thread, but one poster sent her child to UT - El Paso, an RNP institution because of a full ride scholarship and he ended up doing very well.</p>
<p>The University is Florida Atlantic with the Harriet Wilkes Honors college “on the John D. MacArthur campus with easy access to internships at Scripps Florida and the Max Planck Florida Institute”.</p>
<p>FAU is known to be a commuter school, but I believe the majority of students at the honors college live on campus.</p>
<p>Xtreme, Why automatically try to avoid them if they are tier 2-3?</p>
<p>^ You won’t understand unless you visit. </p>
<p>I can personally testify to this. I visited IUP, RMU which are tier 2 maybe even tier 3 institutions. Lack of motivated students, 80% commuters, high teacher to student ratio, qualification of professors, resources, average freshman stats (average SAT was around 1450 LOL) are something to look at.</p>
<p>Xtreme, I would probably expect this on the main campus, but since the honors college is a separate campus I’d expect that not to be the case. But, you are right that a visit and more research would be in order.</p>
<p>While the Harriet Wilkes College seems interesting (especially given that New College of Florida started out in much the same way), the honors college offerings look extremely limited [FAU</a> Catalog - Harriet L. Wilkes Honors College](<a href=“Harriet L. Wilkes Honors College Course Descriptions | Florida Atlantic University”>Harriet L. Wilkes Honors College Course Descriptions | Florida Atlantic University) especially given that most of the classes aren’t offered every semester (here’s the course schedule for Fall 2013, note that most classes are just intro ones <a href=“http://www.fau.edu/divdept/honcol/forms/schedule_f13.pdf[/url]”>http://www.fau.edu/divdept/honcol/forms/schedule_f13.pdf</a> ) so your daughter will take classes with less academically accomplished peers (at least that’s what I’m assuming). </p>
<p>For discussion purposes, I’m assuming you’re in state, so you should try to drive down and visit. Ask questions about what students do when they exhaust the honors courses in their field of study, if it ever gets too suffocating, etc.</p>
<p>Florida Atlantic posts Common Data Set (CDS) information on its site.
[FAU</a> - Institutional Effectiveness and Analysis](<a href=“http://www.fau.edu/iea/cds/cds10.php]FAU”>http://www.fau.edu/iea/cds/cds10.php)</p>
<p>There, you can find information about admission stats, financial aid, class sizes, degrees conferred, etc. I’m not aware of any university that publishes a separate CDS covering only its honors college. You could try calling admissions to see if they can provide you some figures.</p>
<p>Thank you for the links and input. My D is most interested in Neuroscience and that seems to be something that the campus is building on this year. I appreciate the information. I have a hard time narrowing my focus to find the important details.</p>
<p>I suggest the OP read through the thread at the top of this forum called “what’s so great about an honors college”</p>
<p>I read the thread about honors colleges. Thank you. There were some interesting points made.</p>
<p>Harriet Wilkes college is totally separate from FAU. It’s a very good college in that it’s NOT comparable to FAU and the students at that Honors College do NOT take classes with FAU students. All classes are Honors Classes. Whenhen makes a good point in underscoring that’s how New College of Florida got started, but HW is newer and hasn’t built the same reputation yet (at all). However it is beginning to get respected on its own merits and is trying to grow into what NCF has become.
Depending on your daughter’s stats and your financial variables, it may be an excellent choice.</p>
<p>Mom --</p>
<p>I have no comments on the specific program you’re considering. I just don’t know it. Also, I obviously don’t know what other choices she will have.</p>
<p>I can, share my views generally.</p>
<p>First – I believe that one can probably get a quality education at almost any school. Undergrad curricula are fairly similar accross the board.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, when my D’s applied to schools a couple of years ago, they considered the whole Honors College thing. Their conclusion (with our advice)-- go with the better school. At the end of the day, your D’s diploma has the name of the school on it, and no one will care that she went to an Honors college. We felt that for grad schools, jobs, etc. the name on the Diploma could matter.</p>
<p>We believed that the educational experience was based on the student body as a whole, not a subset, and that choosing a better school would provide a greater overall academic experience. </p>
<p>This brings us to the entire “is it worth it?” question. If we’re talking economics – honestly, no one knows. Let me repeat that – there are people who passionately hold views on both sides of this question – but at the end of the day – no one knows. We can say that it is unlikely that your child will be diasdvantaged by going to a so-called better school (and in this sense, it’s a safe choice) but that’s as far as anyone can go.</p>
<p>On a broader level, as I stated, we felt that the better schools would provide our child with an enhanced academic experiece, better discussions, more people at her academic level. An honors college would have some at that level, but interaction is with the university as a whole. Putting economics aside, we felt that what we feel is a better academic experience was a worthwhile investment in her as a person.</p>
<p>So, as parents (who were paying, and fortunately could afford it) we felt that the better overall setting was something we felt was worth it, regardless of whether it would ‘pay’ in the long term.</p>
<p>I fully recognize that this is a personal decision and that every child is different. Gopd luck with whatever conclusions you draw.</p>
<p>While I acknowledge most of Zephyr15’s points, I need to put in a plug for honors colleges at lesser known schools. I was on the faculty at Western Michigan U for several years and I quickly became a big fan of the Lee Honors College at that instutition. These schools, while serving a diverse representation of the state’s population, do tend to put a lot of emphasis AND resources into these special Honors programs. The classes are typically smaller and taught at a higher level by the best, most engaged faculty. The students usually have a place where they can congregate, or in some schools, live with their peers. They have their own advisor and may have greater access to research opportunities and internships, which can give them better preparation for medical school, grad school or jobs. I agree totally that you have to visit and also check the common data set - ask lots of questions about where their students end up.</p>
<p>I guess I’m just saying…don’t write these programs off. They can be a great option for the right student, and some have incredible merit award programs that make them even more desirable.</p>
<p>I actually am a former student of the Honors College at FAU, so hopefully I can offer a different view. </p>
<p>The school, as most can agree, is not for everyone. That being said, it has incredible faculty that will bend over backwards, spend hours talking to students in their offices, and genuinely care to see students learn. The campus is small, so this provides a really family-like community; everyone knows each other within a few weeks and supports each other through the four years and beyond. The quality of education is stellar. </p>
<p>Now, that being said…the Honors College can be a completely wrong fit (many students find this out by their first semester, and transfer soon after) if a student is looking for a bustling array of experiences that larger universities offer. Compare 300 students to 30,000–there is a difference. There are activities going on constantly, but not at the same scale as large universities. The work is hard, and I know many of us sometimes question whether the work is worth it when really, the HC is still attached to FAU, a not-so-great university. There is a huge difference to the HC students versus the main campus students–many HC students could have gone to Ivy League schools, and many do end up going post-grad. Now, unfortunately the main campus has got itself into a bit of an administrative wreck recently, and budget cuts from across the state have severely affected the HC–the course selections are minimal, and dwindling. For neuroscience, however, there is a greater amount of courses available, and many of the students intern at the Scripps Research Center/ Max Planck just across the street. </p>
<p>What I can’t stress enough is knowing what you’re getting in to. The HC will change you as a person in the best of ways if you let it, and are not looking for the “Traditional” college experience. Otherwise, you will be miserable and most likely transfer. The dorms are extremely nice, and the campus is small, but homely. The community is wonderful, but also know that you can walk out of your dorm on the weekend and not see a single soul at times. </p>
<p>Being attached to FAU is a common worry, but if all else fails, one can always just put “Harriet L. Wilkes Honors College” on a resume and just accidentally leave out the FAU part 
</p>
<p>If you haven’t visited the HC, that is the best way to get a feel for the school ([FAU</a> Wilkes Honors College - Visit Us](<a href=“http://www.fau.edu/divdept/honcol/admissions_visit_us.htm]FAU”>http://www.fau.edu/divdept/honcol/admissions_visit_us.htm))
They have tours as well as schedule preview days, where prospective students can sit in on classes and talk to students and professors. </p>
<p>Overall, the merits will be solely based on how you perceive them; on paper, FAU may not look so great, but once you leave the HC, you will be very prepared for graduate/medical school due to the research and level of learning that occurs. The merits may really only be internal growth, but then again, there are plenty of HC students who have made it to top-name grad/med schools (Columbia, UNC Chapel Hill, and Harvard Medical to name a few of the graduates of the class of 2013). </p>
<p>Please don’t hesitate to ask me anything else you’d like to know :)</p>
<p>helloimaleks,
Thank you so much for the great input about the honors college! I really like the idea of the small, supportive environment. I am disappointed to hear about the dwindling choices in available courses. I just read recently about some increased collaboration between the school and Max Plank, so it might be interesting to watch to see what develops from that.</p>
<p>You mention that on a weekend you might come out of the dorm and not see anyone. Can you talk more about that? I do think the lack of activity might be a problem.</p>
<p>My D is in the IB program at her high school right now and the workload can be pretty intense. I don’t know, when it comes down to it, if she will want to sign up for more years of intense, or want to find someplace that might have some more relaxed options. </p>
<p>What made you choose the honors college over other smaller colleges?</p>
<p>Not the HC you are looking at shoboemom, but the author still checks in at CC on occasion, and is happy to answer questions: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/905843-top-student-3rd-tier-school-four-years-later.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/905843-top-student-3rd-tier-school-four-years-later.html</a></p>
<p>Happymom, Thank you so much for that link!</p>
<p>I certainly hope the increased collaboration will keep more students from transferring, and bring more students in. I know they were adding more buildings to the center, so I can only imagine it expanding. </p>
<p>As for the weekends, the reason is that a good amount of students live nearby and go home for the weekend. Plus, some students study or work, and so just in terms of space and ratio (the small school size and population), many students just won’t be bustling around campus. The plus to this is that because of the small community, students will just catch up with their closer friends or roommates and watch movies, go to the beach, check out the Abacoa shops or take the 20 minute car ride to West Palm Beach, which has fun downtown area full of shops, restaurants, and other quirky places (even a trolley tour!) </p>
<p>The interesting thing about the workload is that yes, it is a lot, but a factor that I found when speaking/working with other students is that it feels worth it because the professors care. Nothing ever felt like “busy” work–we could always see the sense in what we were doing. You learn to balance the work–it’s really not that bad, especially because the courses are so varied due to the liberal arts core, and the support is there if you need it (office hours are the only way I got through statistics!) </p>
<p>There were a few factors in my decision, as I was between the HC and UF. One was proximity to home; I like the South Florida area. Another was financial–the HC gives out scholarships to all incoming students. Yet another was the sense of community I felt when I visited, and I kind of wanted to take the “path less traveled” than my other peers, who were all going to UF. I wanted to be a big fish in a small pond. What I think really sealed the deal, however, was when I received my acceptance letter. The director of admissions had hand written a note on the letter saying that she enjoyed the essay I submitted that was part of the application process. </p>
<p>If your D does not want to get lost in a large school, having to push through many others to get past the competition and have her needs met, the HC will be a pleasant surprise :)</p>